Hello from Canada

Hey there Tae,

First off I would like to welcome you to the venomland forum! You will certainly learn a lot here!

Secondly, I can see you are interested in keeping venomous snakes but my concern is when you are willing to teach yourself. I don't see any reason to even consider this as I am sure you can find a mentor in your area that will help train you in how to deal wth venomous snakes. Training yourself is not only extremely dangerous but puts every other venomous keeper at risk because if you don't have the proper training and you get bit than legislation will come down hard on other venomous keepers even prohibiting them from being owned period, even though there are very few areas in Ontario that even permit the keeping of venomous reptiles. This is one thing that people need to see the big picture of BEFORE getting a venomous reptile...

Your best bet for a beginner snake would be one of the Agkistrodon species simply because their bite is a bit more forgiving than others. Also one thing you need to remember too is that you need to have antivenom on hand in the case if you are bitten. It is easier to get antivenom for an Agkistrodon bite than a B. Schlegelli bite.

Finally, people who come here and ask for mentorship are not ridiculed, there is some age descrimination for particular reasons but here at venomland we aren't here to snicker at peoples questions or their ideas we are here to share knowledge and experiences from one venomous lover to another.

Best Regards,
Dillon

Guest

There are numerous venomous keepers on here from Canada I am sure you can contact and if not, I would make a trip to the U.S when they host a Venomous Snake Handling Course to at least get some hands on training.

I do know not many venomous keepers are very vocal of their practices which I have mixed feelings about because when people like us are considering getting a venomous snake we don't know where to go.. And will have to just own one and learn from there which puts them at risk but if they aren't willing to try and assist people in the training in the area of venomous snake keeping, the venomous snake keepers are the ones willing to accept the consequences because they aren't doing their part in the training of future venomous keepers.

Well if Copperheads don't interest you than go with one you enjoy. As you say it doesn't make sense to get one you aren't interested in keeping. Like for myself I am interested in Crotalus so I would start with Crotalus Cerastes.

I know you weren't talking about this forum when looking for a mentor but here would be the place to ask as ridicule isn't a factor. There are some people here who have done what we might need to do and just go out and own one without any training. Although what I would reccomend if you can't find a mentor would be to get an aggressive rear-fanged snakes such as False Water Cobras (Hydrodynastes Gigas) and work with it for a few months and work your way up from there. I have been dealing with these for a few months now and if no mentor is found in the near future I will have to go out and buy one.

Thanks,
Dillon

Guest

Welcome to the forum Tae. I see from your avatar that you have a green tree python; it looks gorgeous. I also have a couple- they are great animals to keep. Like you I joined this forum recently and spend a lot of time reading the posts to learn more about the hots.

Regards,
Mohammed

welcome on the forum

Guest

First off Tae it is not Karel Forty it is Karel Fortin,second anybody who thinks that there is such a thing as a 'beginner' venomous animal is not ready to even get out of bed and have his mother dress him or her. As I told you before on more than one occasion there are not too many keepers in our parts that are worthy,remember the stories I told you and those are only just a few. If you so wish to get someone to 'mentor' you contact Brye Loyst and see if he will take you on as a volunteer or whatever he is worthy and probably the only person who is above ground if you catch my drift.

eric hasler wrote:: First off Tae it is not Karel Forty it is Karel Fortin,second anybody who thinks that there is such a thing as a 'beginner' venomous animal is not ready to even get out of bed and have his mother dress him or her. As I told you before on more than one occasion there are not too many keepers in our parts that are worthy,remember the stories I told you and those are only just a few. If you so wish to get someone to 'mentor' you contact Brye Loyst and see if he will take you on as a volunteer or whatever he is worthy and probably the only person who is above ground if you catch my drift.

I concur, and well said Mr. Hasler. For others who may be still following along in this Thread, I'd suggest that you contact your local museum and some of the more notable live collections that are in your area and see if there might be someone you can talk to in person rather than looking for support from others over the internet. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Guest

Guest

Tae Kim wrote:

Jon Davidson wrote:: ..rather than looking for support from others over the internet..

Regarding this paraphrased statement I have sent you a private message. If you wish to reply, I am all ears.

I received your PM, which is clearly far more deferential in tone and demeanour than this statement. Why not re-post your PM to me openly here in this discussion, so that I can respond in kind. Sincerely, Jon Davidson . Writer`s edit: to correct a small typo.

Guest

Tae Kim wrote:: You know, the frustrating thing about the internet is its inherent difficulties in being able to decipher the tone of one's speech. It wasn't meant to be as such.

There was a proactive reason as to why I PM'd you, and I would prefer to keep it that way.

I had no problem understanding the tone of either your open statements in this Thread or your PM, so your reticence in engaging me in an open dialogue is perhaps not surprising. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Guest

Tae Kim wrote:: The reason why I wished to keep the topics of discussion via PM was for a political reason more than personal; to protect the integrity of others (believe it or not) and not necessarily myself.

Please do not hesitate to press the delete button of that message if it does so much as offends you. Your reply, unless genuinely found, would be unsolicited at this point.

The topic- and tone- of your PM to me is, in my view, quite suitable for public consumption, particularly here on Venomland. By the way, I am more than happy to not have unknown individuals approach me over the internet for information on how to gain access to live venomous snakes. With kind regards, Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Guest

Tae Kim wrote:: Just thought I'd point one contextual ambiguity out here:

Gain access to live venomous snakes = Training =/= "Do you know where I can buy one?"

As long as that part is clarified, I really do understand Mr. Davidson.

Perfect! Sincerely, Jon Davidson . Writer's edit, 11:25 pm, or so on 08/31/12: Additional: So... Three PM's from you!! This last one even after I asked you politely not to keep trying to contact me!! You are not making a very good first impression. If you attempt to contact me again on this web site, I will post your PM's to me and my replies here in this Thread and report you to the moderator/administration. Please note further, I never addressed you directly in this discussion. I merely expressed my agreement with Mr. Hasler's perspective (and the perfect way in which made his point with such clarity, brevity and succintness). You have addressed me repeatedly now, even after being directed not to, and because I'm a real fellow here in my neck of the woods with a long time interest in venomous snakes I can tell you that you would be well advised to follow the direction of Mr. Hasler- if you're for real, of course. I am absolutely confident that Mr. Loyst will exercise sound and prudent judgement in who he may or may not select as a potential intern or acting apprentice at his facility. A final point, I often copy and print off any contentious sounding internet dialogue/communications that involves me just so that everyone- for the record- can see if they wish to exactly what got said in that discussion. I wish you well in your endeavour.

Jon,good to see you back and in fine form(wink wink). Tae and Dillon you now may see why no one is interested in 'mentoring' the up and comers and I won't even bring up the liabilty issue or the situation when someone thinks(and I use that word jokingly) they have been wronged by someone and proccedes to some other forum and submarines them all because they didn't get their way....the sound of stomping feet and huffing and puffing echoing in the background. I have seen this way too often in the internet age and it is such a shame and underhanded. But as a wise and miserable individual once said ' Please do not respond if your tattoo collection is larger than your herpetological library.' Tae do you see and understand where this has gone and why it has gone that way. You need to acquire the taste of crow right now and hope there is something still salvagable.

Eric I know many keepers aren't interested in teaching the up and comers for the reasons you have listed as I mentioned them in another thread as well. The liability issue is a huge responsibility on the mentors part so I can see why most would decline the opportunity to train the new comers. Although to clarify I am not huffing and puffing in my posts above (if that was what you were insinuating). I am not trying to slander any venomous keeper or anything of that nature. I am simply giving my point of view on the subjects as well as giving a perfectly valid alternative (which I quoted below) in the case of new keepers not finding mentors.

Quote :: There are numerous venomous keepers on here from Canada I am sure you can contact and if not, I would make a trip to the U.S when they host a Venomous Snake Handling Course to at least get some hands on training.

For the part of contacting Canadian venomous keepers it is to gain access to information and to try and point you in the right direction. As for the venomous snake handling courses in the U.S, I know of quite a few in which I am planning on going to in the following year as to get hands on experience without putting another venomous keeper in a liable situation.

Guest

eric hasler wrote:: ' Please do not respond if your tattoo collection is larger than your herpetological library.'

LOL !! ( 'PS': I bet I know who first said that.) Always good to see that you're around, Mr. Hasler- and your advice to these young internet entities was right on the money. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Jon,I bet you do. Tae,I just saw this in your initial introduction..... 'To be completely honest with you; if I had the choice of keeping none of them or venomoids, I would keep the venomoids because I love their presence. '
You can now scratch me off your list for any assistance on venom introduction on species and or keepers. Nothing says love like mutilation...hybridization and mutilations rank right at the top for situations that get me really really angry(just ask the guy who I threw down my front steps who wanted to buy my chondros so he could hybridize them with Carpet pythons. On a side note was just at a BBQ on the weekend with some keepers and was privilaged to observe the birthing of a clutch of Eyelash vipers. It has been many many years since I have kept venom but I will tell you baby Eyelash vipers are one of my favorites.
We actually discussed this thread and the new people that are 'up and comming' and to a man not one of them is interested in them in any way shape or form,they have no sense of being discreet(and not the record label) nor the respect they deserve> See Ditmar and Conant for clarification, but maybe you can spend thousands of dollars to go to the states for classes on this...still makes me laugh. I am now done with this thread,having spent way too much time on nonsense.

eric hasler wrote:: but maybe you can spend thousands of dollars to go to the states for classes on this...still makes me laugh.

I don't understand why it is so funny... Would you not rather people who would like to acquire venomous snakes at some point to have some hands on training with these animals before going out and owning one?... It shows commitment if you are willing to spend "thousands" to go to the U.S for hands on training, Although the Indian River Reptile Zoo has a hands on course but it is strickly for people with degrees in Zoology and other associated professions which I am going to school for.

I would much rather pay the "thousands" of dollars though to get the hands on training before owning one if a mentor can not be found as I am not the type of person to just go out and acquire something without having experience with it. Again, not sure why this is laugh worthy.. I consider it being responsible...

Best Regards,
Dillon

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