My animals

Hi! Some of my snakes







I hope you like it.

BR, Andrej

Beautiful snakes. It Purpureomaculatus ?. What location ?

Hi,
male - purpureomaculatus x albolabris
female - (purpureomaculatus x albolabris) x stejnegeri

BR, Andrej

Quote :

male - purpureomaculatus x albolabris
female - (purpureomaculatus x albolabris) x stejnegeri

Horrible!

Peter Zürcher wrote:

Horrible!

Why?

Why?
Just because there is no valuable reason to mix two or even three different species, but a whole bunch of reasons not to do it.
Thumbs down!

That's what I think Peter. I would not mix well, especially since it Purpureomaculatus. But this decision breeder, I know I would not do, even though they are not ugly.

it's a hybrid so that's why it looks familiar to a stejnegeri

cool snakes.

This hybrid looks like it it, but never close to an stejnegeri or one of the Viridivipera group.
Such crossinfs are knky from intress for suentific reasons. But what can bring this for
hobbyist keepers? A ,, new'' form? There are nit enought jn nature?
Wgen a gravied WC brings this, it will from intress, but by make by human?
I see such practuse us dobe very often by keepers and ,,breeders'' of ratsnakes abd Phytons, but only wuth an finance backround. One of the reasons, why I like keeping venomous snskes was - that there wasn't such sh... Things changed....

BTW: I can't belive that there was a 2nd crissing with a 3th species.
T. albolabris and T. purpureonaculatus chare the same hemipenis chape and strukture.
V. stejnegeri has an complete differend strukture! How this works?
I ghink that your ,,stejnegeri'' was a member of the albolabris group too.

Hi. First of all: I do not create these hybrids and I've never created any. They were together only for photo purpose. I bought hybrids but someone create them and this doesn't mean they do not deserve life and good conditions. Should I kill them?!

To the point: what it means for breeders and hobbyists? From a practical point of view none. Besides they are hybrids, have different colouration and behaviour, nothing more. Maybe breeders make them from their own curiosity? It doesn't matter people create hybrids with financial motives or only for visual experience - this is the same interference with nature.

The shape really resemble genus Cryptelytrops. But you can explain the fact that from breeding purpureomaculatus x stejnegeri (according to you - albolabris) we got brown specimens with characteristic stejnegeri-head? From breeding hybrid x hybrid involving stejnegeri we have green and brown snakes in one litter! How does it happen? I suggest: you should try. If you think you cannot mix albolabris x stejnegeri, you really should try. In the end you will lose nothing, because it "cannot be". There cases I've seen with my own eyes at my friend's home. He created these two from the photos, too.

I don't want to be a BAD GUY cause I have hybrids.
BR, Andrej

Hi Andrej,

I stay at my point - there are NO reasons to produce such hybrids! When we not respect the nature and create what ever we want, than we are on the wrong way. When such hybrids came along in nature, the will find there gap or die. In my opinion we have not to play ,,god´´ and create our own wold, only when we think it will be ok, intresting or nice.

You think to create hybrids for finalcial or visual effects are the same - yes I agree both is not essential! Keepers of animals, not only reptiles has to take care and protect of the animals they keep, not to play ,,god´´. Such hybrids can enter the market very fast, people ,,forget´´ mabye what it was what they bought and than a lot of s.... will enter no expericesed keepers. Can be....and happend each year.

Take a look in some of our forum section where you will find a lot ,,please help to ID my...´´ You will find some very starnge looking snakes. For example - A. contortrix ssp. and bilineatus.

I have keeped a very long time exclusivly european vipers. One of the facts that I have like very very much was - that the majority of this kepers hold on to keep and breed there lines very clean. And when I mean clean it is clean. They has keeped not only the same species with members of the same, not only the same ssp. with only the same ssp. No, they has keeped only the sankes together from a single population! No mixes at all! Thats what I call clean and responsible. Ok, we can´t doe this for all species, it is a differend to buy some vipers from an import from central Africa or snakes from private breeders they can follow there way back for generations. But we have to doe our best, or not?

Now I keep a lot of asian pitvipers, and this snakes are very colorfull and intresting in there natural behaviour. There are so much differend species, why to mix this? No partner for the single albolabris? Or for the purpureomaculatus? No matter, wait and breed lalter.
No coustomers for the albolabris or purpureomaculatus? Don´t breed.

You are not a realy bad guy, but with each hybrid you will buy you support this unneeded breeding.

To your last point - there are no characteristics of stejnergeri. I has no Idee where you will see this?!

Typical is 1st: a divided nasal Plate (in Sinovipera, Popeia and Viridovipera) not divided in (Trimeresurus, fomerly known as Cryptelytrops)

Head shape, eye shape and Canthus rostralis are typical for the albolabris group! Where are the stejnegeri? I see ,,typical´´ albolabris x purpureomaculatus crossings.

You wrote try and try, but I will never try to produce a hybrid. No reason. But one more.
Here in my hometown was a keeper that has had similar attitude about the hybrids like you.
He ,,try´´ to produce hybrids with V. vogeli x T. purpureomaculatus - nothing happends over years. Thanks for this....It was in the 90s and we all has not such knowledge about the differend Groups like today. All was only ,,Trimeresurus´´ no Protobothrops, no Ovophis and and....

A last point for today - In my poinion it will be not a good Idee to cross venomous snakes at all, I´m not an toxicologist so I have not sientific backround of this, but what will be happend with the venoum of such snakes? Mutation possible? Reactions known?

When I ever creata a ,,new´´ snakes it will be only with Photoshop, not in my terrarians.

regards,

Peter

What will you tell the doctors if you get bitten my friend? I dont know these species and anti-venom etc but im guessing these havr one hell off a cocktail?

Regards Niklas