A friend came around and took some pictures

Hi Rich,

nice pictures between those - but several ones I would not have shown (for several reasons).

Regards

Peter

Cool takes, especially the monocle shots.
Agree to Peter for the angusticeps photos Wink

A unfixed mambas head in 5 cm distance to your fingers?

If the snake get scared by a move of the photographer, a shadow or whatever always could happen, you will run into big troubles within parts of a second.

I'm not sure if pictures like these can be the right effort to avoid more restrictions in venomous keeping.......

@all
Show acts like this should definitely not be the reason why serious keepers do keep these animals!
Never try to get that close, unless there's a reason to do so and the snake needs some kind of treatment and is properly fixed!

Peter

Hello Richard.

I find the mamba pics also not well. If these pics are the found one again eat for that presses.
As if we did not have already enough problems...

But no stress, its my opinion....

Greets, Chris

Richard,
i can see quite a difference between holding a Naja siamensis in the middle of its body with a hook kept ready to react and getting that closed to a unfixed mambas head.
I can further see quite a difference between the behaviour of these two genus and their possibilities to react if they get scared - I'm sure you know that as well.

Basically, you are right - every free handling picture posted in the www could cause problems - I haven't decided yet wether i should remove my picture on facebook or put some remarks on it.

Many of us are doing things like these, most of us in a professional, safe manner - proofing the common public reputation of venomous snakes as ever fighting and striking killer machines wrong - on the other hand, these handling pictures could be associated by laymen with carelessness.

Shouldn't we, as i mentioned before on this board, declare free handling situations shown here on pictures as potentially dangerous and restricted to professionals, just in order to keep away less experienced people from trying it by themselves and to bear responsibility in public?

Some remarks on your mamba picture like "This snake is handicapped - don't try this with a healthy snake or without professional experience" would fit well.
Just my opinion

Best regards
Peter

Nice Photos. But why are you handling these animals just for taking pictures. First off all they are venomous. Second, it is only stress for your snakes.

Richard,thats real good stuff my friend.

Richard Mastenbroek wrote:: '... but I post it for the pictures not for myself'.

Can you please tell us, Mr. Mastenbroek, what the purpose is of having yourself photographed freehandling live venomous snakes- especailly the images with your fingers and face mere inches from a live Mamba- and then posting those images on the internet? Just wondering... Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

i am truley surprised how many people here question the fact f richard posting these pics .
no i would never handle snakes that way but thats my opinino of what i can do and not just like its richards opinion that he can , he must be feeling safe doing so .
i dont see anyone here talk bout videos being postet on oyu tube but others , feeding a maba on a table or stuff like that wich also inmy opinion , if the person feels safe to so fine ,
ok maybe richard should have just added the setence not to this at home but istill dont think its right for everyone here just do gang up on him , be glad hes showing some nice snakes of his collection and stop critizising , there is a very nice german saying those who sit in a glashouse shouldnt throw stones , think about it before oyu go out ciritizsing people for showing freehandle pics again

Stephan Niemann wrote:: i am truley surprised how many people here question the fact f richard posting these pics .
no i would never handle snakes that way but thats my opinino of what i can do and not just like its richards opinion that he can , he must be feeling safe doing so .
i dont see anyone here talk bout videos being postet on oyu tube but others , feeding a maba on a table or stuff like that wich also inmy opinion , if the person feels safe to so fine ,
ok maybe richard should have just added the setence not to this at home but istill dont think its right for everyone here just do gang up on him , be glad hes showing some nice snakes of his collection and stop critizising , there is a very nice german saying those who sit in a glashouse shouldnt throw stones , think about it before oyu go out ciritizsing people for showing freehandle pics again

I agree with Stefan!!!!

Richard Mastenbroek wrote:: Mr. Davidson,

I know you like to stir things up as you always do that on other forums as well. You never post anything meaning full and seem to enjoy a live in troubles. As you have figths and troubles outsifde the snakeworld to !
Didn't you piss off a big motor club as well ;-)!!!!! I think far more dangerous dan holding a handicaped mamba on a hook as I explained already before.
Than the picture you talk about can not be found on the venomland forums as I removed them!

Than on the other hand what I do with my snakes is my choice. Even when I hang a blackmamba around my neck and make pictures of them its still my choice (But would not think about it to do that) if I post them on a forum and its not against the forum rules. Its again my choice!

I have a dog to and there are plenty pictures from me with my dog as my snakes are also my pets that I love like my dog I'm also being photograved with my snakes as they mean allot to me and I become hopefully much older than them.

I have no idea what you're referring to with your remarks about my personal life, Mr. Mastenbroek. Perhaps you should stay on topic? I think that many of us can understand your anger with my question; but nonetheless, the question is a legitimate one, and I'm sure all experienced, responsible venomous snake keepers would agree. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Quote :: be glad hes showing some nice snakes of his collection

Just wondering about these justifications - there's plenty of pictures here on the board without snakes beeing handled.

Quote :: i dont see anyone here talk bout videos being postet on oyu tube but others

wondering again - about trying to compare VenomLand and YouTube - we should try to hold a higher and more serious level than many of the videos shown there.

Richard has removed these mamba pictures on his own decision already some days ago.

and @Richard
your right saying (free-) handling is your choice - as long as you do it in a private, intimate circle. As soon as you do it on a public board, others might be affected as well. One cannot rule everything, Richard, but shouldn't we all work for hotkeepers (better) public reputation?

Posting free handling pictures on public boards can be problematical, as i stated before.
Further discussions are welcome, please stay objective and avoid personal attacks!

Best regards

Peter

peter i didnt attack no one as i did not attack the videos either , i just stated that iit is surprising that those are not being discused but pictures that are not even on here animore

I see one thing, Richard, you didn't read my postings well - at least you didn't understand'em.

If you're posting pictures on a public board, you must tolerate that these pictures will be discussed - and your mamba pictures can be discussed and valued different by different people - that's the way it goes (and should go) on a discussion board.
Of course it's the same with my (handling-) pictures (there's only one, not posted here, but on Facebook as a single private person)

As long as discussions stay in a friendly, factual manner (what i did in my opinion), it should be okay.

As soon as personal attacks - like yours here against Mr. Davidson - take place, it's not okay.

I saw your attacks against Mr. Davidson elsewhere - and i'm not going to discuss'em. I'm just shocked seeing a venomous keeper loosing control that way. Don't ever try that and use those words here!

And once again - further discussions welcome - but in a friendly, professional way. Any off topics or personal attacks will be removed!

Cheers
Peter

I just wanted to state that I found it more than distracting how You attacked Mr. Davidson here, Richard. It was unkind, without any connection to the topic and totally misplaced.

Sorry to get so direct but this is not adult behaviour in my terms of understanding. You posted photos and got reactions. If You like it or not - no reason to get that personally. Just sad! I hope You are more laid back when handling Your hots.

Regards,
Guenter

@Mr. Davidson I migth not be that polite to you. My apology for that in person I'm not as bad Wink Having a discussion with you about handling technics is fine with me but keep it friendly with a dose of humor like said before and not on a cocky arrongant way which you may not mean but definnaly reads like that for a non native English speaking person like myself.

@Peter, my apologies to you I did not want to dirt the forum.

@the rest freehandling is a thing you should never do, I do sometimes with snakes but I learned from the best on a semi responsible way at venom extraction lab. it can become quit handy as you have 2 hands on for the jigger on for the snake. And in that circumstances I'm quit happy that I learned a good technic en skills with that. I havre never had a close call or bite by freehandling a snake.
In fact the freehandling I do is not not more than moving a snake by holding it mid body or tailing it, hook is always near me. I'm not saying that I never crossed borders with freehandling a snake but that plain stupid but still a calculated risk because I know what the snake and I are capable of I can feel what the snake does because its in my hands and also read body language which still not guerantee that its not dangerous.

I will never not answer any question as they are on a friendly and respectfull way.

With Kind Regards

Richard Mastenbroek

Richard Mastenbroek wrote:: @Mr. Davidson I migth not be that polite to you. My apology for that in person I'm not as bad Wink Having a discussion with you about handling technics is fine with me but keep it friendly with a dose of humor like said before and not on a cocky arrongant way which you may not mean but definnaly reads like that for a non native English speaking person like myself.

@Peter, my apologies to you I did not want to dirt the forum.

@the rest freehandling is a thing you should never do, I do sometimes with snakes but I learned from the best on a semi responsible way at venom extraction lab. it can become quit handy as you have 2 hands on for the jigger on for the snake. And in that circumstances I'm quit happy that I learned a good technic en skills with that. I havre never had a close call or bite by freehandling a snake.
In fact the freehandling I do is not not more than moving a snake by holding it mid body or tailing it, hook is always near me. I'm not saying that I never crossed borders with freehandling a snake but that plain stupid but still a calculated risk because I know what the snake and I are capable of I can feel what the snake does because its in my hands and also read body language which still not guerantee that its not dangerous.

I will never not answer any question as they are on a friendly and respectfull way.

With Kind Regards

Richard Mastenbroek

I appreciate the efforts you have made in offering an apology, Mr. Mastenbroek. I trust that you have removed the insulting remarks that you posted about me on Facebook along with providing a similar disclaimer on that site. I have notified the administration here with regard to the PM you sent me yesterday threatening to send your cousins from a 'motor club' to my residence because I 'pissed you off'. Perhaps you should offer a retraction of your private message remarks, as well...? Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Quote :: Perhaps you should offer a retraction of your private message remarks, as well.

Seems to be a good idea in my opinion, Richard!
To threaten people should definitely not be the way our users here should communicate. Take this as a serious warning!

Regretfully i have to assert that these things cannot be discussed in a friendly, respectful way. It's a pity, because publishing free handling pictures could cause problems and should be discussed.

Maybe later.....?

Giving you the opportunity to cool down, gentlemen, I'm closing here at the moment.

Best regards

Peter

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