Atheris squamigera

Hi I'm new to the forum. I want to know if squamigera is a good starter hot? Are they generally agressive and how toxic is their venom. I know there is no antivenom for Atheris but can a bite be treated in some way?

http://www.venomland.net/venom-f10/the-venom-of-the-atherini-tribe-t124.htm

Cheers,
Guenter

What's up with all the 15 years olds from Bulgaria... Get yourself a ratsnake or kingsnake and leave the venomous alone for at least 6 years scratch

If you are in to arboreal hots, find yourself an aggressive Morelia viridis (considered you have some experience with snakes), and wait a few years before you get a hot snake. If you loose any, and i mean, ANY respect of the Morelia, you are not ready for any hot snake. If you still have a lot of respect (after 3-4 years), find yourself a mentor, who can teach you the real thing, tips, etc. And after some time learning, you may start keeping hots.

Then with the Morelia, if you get bit, you can learn from that, think about it, and find out what you did wrong, and never do that mistake again. Again, you can learn from keeping an aggressive non-venomous arboreal snake first. Wouldn't it be better to do mistakes with a non-venomous snake, rather than with a hot snake?

Stefan Anthonijsz wrote:: What's up with all the 15 years olds from Bulgaria... Get yourself a ratsnake or kingsnake and leave the venomous alone for at least 6 years

Where did I say that I will get a hot that early? My aim is to gather as much info and experience as possible for when I get older.

Go and play football.
In a few years 10 old kids will ask for albolabris.

By the way. They are no good starters given my the nature. As same as good keepers. So there are no suitable starting snakes, but suitable beginners.

Christoph Meyer wrote:: Go and play football.
In a few years 10 old kids will ask for albolabris.

By the way. They are no good starters given my the nature. As same as good keepers. So there are no suitable starting snakes, but suitable beginners.

I agree with you for the keepers! There are no perfect starter snakes but I think a starter hot is a snake that wont kill you in one bite it'll just make you think what you are getting in to.

Martin Romanov wrote:

Christoph Meyer wrote:: Go and play football.
In a few years 10 old kids will ask for albolabris.

By the way. They are no good starters given my the nature. As same as good keepers. So there are no suitable starting snakes, but suitable beginners.

I agree with you for the keepers! There are no perfect starter snakes but I think a starter hot is a snake that wont kill you in one bite it'll just make you think what you are getting in to.

A serious injury is enough. Most hots do have the ability to hurt You seriously if the circumstances fit. Please tell me one venomous snake where a bite won't harm You for sure! Just one would be enough Wink

Some facts in respect to the Atheris:

They are nice and small looking. BUT they are related to saw-scale vipers (echis). One look in their eyes with an open mind and you will see this. So you can say, they are echis sitting on a stick.
The behavior is exactly the same. They bluff and puff and strike lightening fast! The venom is pretty wicked! A more or less beginner was bitten by a nitschei in Germany and it was very critical. The blood was not coagulable anymore and this for hours. Just one dameged bigger blood vessel and thats it. He was lucky that the tissue damage was not distinctived

Guenter Leitenbauer wrote:

Martin Romanov wrote:

Christoph Meyer wrote:: Go and play football.
In a few years 10 old kids will ask for albolabris.

By the way. They are no good starters given my the nature. As same as good keepers. So there are no suitable starting snakes, but suitable beginners.

I agree with you for the keepers! There are no perfect starter snakes but I think a starter hot is a snake that wont kill you in one bite it'll just make you think what you are getting in to.

A serious injury is enough. Most hots do have the ability to hurt You seriously if the circumstances fit. Please tell me one venomous snake where a bite won't harm You for sure! Just one would be enough Wink

There probably isn't such a hot. But there is a big diference between a mamba and a ammodytes. I'm saying ammodytes because In Bulgaria they aren't that venomous and there is antivenom in every hospital where I live and most of the times you don't need it.

Haha, don't wish You a bite of a ammodytes into a blood vessel my friend.
The venom of V.a. and iven V.berus isn't that weak. In fact the LD50 is near a cobra venom and just the small amount and the rather small fangs are an argument that it may not be that harmful.

i wonder myself about the keepers who keep hots in countries where the health system is not well developed e.g. Poland or others Eastern Europe states.Antivenom of exclusive hots is not available and very expensive. In many cases the supply is not covered by the health insurance funds. After a bite persons may be insolvency and sick.

There is no good starter hot. These animals have developed venoms and venom delivery systems that are highly advanced and most of the time we don’t even fully understand their capabilities. Saying the a V. ammodytes doesn’t compare to a Dendroaspis doesn’t make sense both are venomous and given the right circumstances both can kill you or seriously injure you. Atheris are highly venomous ask anyone who has been bitten if they think they are a good starter hot. The question of what is a good starter hot shows you need experience. If you have sufficient experience with hots then you will know exactly what you can handle. Again I do not believe many 15 year olds can comprehend how much responsibility keeping hots actually evolves. Like I said before find a responsible mentor who will teach you and give you the practical experience you need. You are obviously very keen on your snakes and nothing can discourage a new herper faster than a trip to the ICU, loosing an kidney or a finger or two.

sorry to tell you but there is no diference between a mamba or an ammodytes or even a bombslang, it all depends on your sensitivity to the venom of "x" snake, you may get bitten by an Oxyuranus and you can not die but maybe next time you get bitten by an ammodytes and it can kill you in less than a minute, it is because the sensitivity of you body changes depending on what are you exposed to, by the way are alerjic to penicilin or to a bee sting?? if you are so, don´t get into hots a minimun drop of venom of any snake can kill you in less than a minute, if you are not then get a morelia viridis and that is the best teacher you will have before you get a hot one

hope it works

best regards

Gustav, I think You overstressed the "sensitivity" argument here. "No difference" between mambas and ammodytes is funny but surely not true.

And "less than a minute" is nonsense, sorry but I have to say this so clearly. If You define "dead" as brain death it will take at least several minutes until after the brain is no longer supported with blood (oxygen).

Regards
Guenter

There COULD be no difference between Dendroaspis spp. and Vipera spp. on the "sensivity level".

But one should be careful with statements like this - beginners could misunderstand it and take it as a reason to argue "if a Long Nosed Viper can kill me as qiuck as a Green Mamba, i can do an unexperienced start with a Dendroaspis as well."

Still in most snakebite accidents "normal" toxin-based effects will establish and there's quite a difference between Vipera and Dendroaspis.

On the other hand, it's okay, if not necessary for the venomous keeper, to have an eye on possible sensitivity problems.

http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/97

Best regards
Peter

jeej I´m sorry I did overstressed the termins that I used and yea I know that it is dificult to some one die in less than a minute, I was just trying to say how dangerous can be a bite form an ammodytes if you have sensitivity to its venom, and I know there is a huge diference between mamba and ammodytes venom but like I said I was just trying to explain how dangerous can be any venemous snake.
and yes peter I souldn´t make this comments can be an argue to get a mamba.
thank you guys for correcting mi comments

Gustav Eloy wrote:: jeej I´m sorry I did overstressed the termins that I used and yea I know that it is dificult to some one die in less than a minute, I was just trying to say how dangerous can be a bite form an ammodytes if you have sensitivity to its venom, and I know there is a huge diference between mamba and ammodytes venom but like I said I was just trying to explain how dangerous can be any venemous snake.
and yes peter I souldn´t make this comments can be an argue to get a mamba.
thank you guys for correcting mi comments

One point I'd like to make, is simply that a bite from a venomous snake, ANY venomous snake, is a serious medical emergency that requires prompt professional care from a doctor who has experience in treating this kind of emergency. While the bite from Atheris sp. may or may not be fatal, the damage to a bitten limb can be profound, and loss of a finger or hand may result from an untreated bite.

Years back, I read an account of a young man who was bitten by a Notechis, and although he survived the bite, his hair turned white, his eyesight suffered, and he needed a cane to help him walk! Venomous snakes are not to be kept by unskilled, untrained people who aren't truly aware of the risks involved. No one can reasonably say that every possible scenario leading to an an accident has been understood and provisions taken to avoid the chance of a bite. A friend of mine thought he had everything under his control until the apartment under his had a FIRE which spread to his hot room! When the firemen came to his apartment to fight the fire, they were confronted with a room on fire that was full of venomous snakes, and my friend was at work at the time! Enough said!

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