Keeping together

Hi all. Pro´s opinions needed. So, there is quite a lot of opinions about keeping snakes together and now when I at last have had
opportunity to get few Viperas (1.1 V.aspis francisciredi, 1.1 V.r.renardi, 1.1 V.a.ammondytes, 1.1 V.a.,ruffoi, 1.1 V.a.meridionalis,
1.1 V.latastei gaditana, 1.1 V.r.raddei, 1.1 V.kaznakowi) I want to do everything just right. Do you keep your viperas
together (for example renardi with renardi, not renardi with ruffoi) and if not - why ? There is a lot of pics where vipers
are together and I´m little bit (or more) confused abt this. An other guestion - best book for keeper of Old World / European Viperas.
Thanks.

rgds
Ari

I always try to keep animals separate. Doing so, I can avoid a lot of problems, mainly bites, and I also have to keep an eye only on a single animal at a time when opening the terrarium. I know that many people keep snake couples together, but I think that doing so there is also a chance for potential disaster if one of the snakes bite its companion at feeding time or because whatever the reason... So, basically, keeping hots separately will enhance their security (and also yours).

Regards

Israel M. Sánchez wrote:: I always try to keep animals separate. Doing so, I can avoid a lot of problems, mainly bites, and I also have to keep an eye only on a single animal at a time when opening the terrarium. I know that many people keep snake couples together, but I think that doing so there is also a chance for potential disaster if one of the snakes bite its companion at feeding time or because whatever the reason... So, basically, keeping hots separately will enhance their security (and also yours).
Regards

Thanks. Thats my personal opinion too, but have to ask pro´s opinions ... I´m only a rookie in this hobby.

Hi Ari,

I've kept several european and oriental vipers in the past and there never were any problems to keep them as pairs or groups. However youngsters of Montivipera wagneri and M. raddei sometimes tended to swallow their brothers and sisters besides the pinkies I fed them. So these may be well observed or even separated, especially during and after feeding them.

Regards

Peter

Edit: Of course Israel is right. Keeping hots separately means less danger and maybe even less stress to both, the kept and the keeper. But the other way also works well and it's nice to observe them as pairs or groups aswell.

I have had problems (not serious, fortunately) with Montivipera xanthina. Male bite female. I think there is always a chance of something like this happening...

I agree with Mr. Sanchez with regard to keeping snakes separately; although, I like to keep my snakes(of the same species) in pairs or trios whenever possible. As far as books on European vipers, I would suggest two publications: 'The Vipers of Europe' by Johan De Smedt. 2001. ISBN #: 10 3-00-019113-5 and 'Old World Vipers' by Tony Phelps. 2010. (www.chimaria.de). ISBN #: 978-3-89973-470-6. Both books will provide you with a wealth of information. Hope that this is helpful. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

I kept a pair of adult V. ammodytes ammodytes together in a 100x50x60 cm enclousure and after a few month the male started to bite the female in the neck.
After this I seperated the male from the female.
But I heared also that some holders keep there V. ammodytes together and everything is fine, others had the same "problem" as me.
So it looks like that it can work, but there is noch guaranty for that.

My two Epicrates cenchria c. are kept together as well as my two Lampropeltis zonata pulchra. Especially with the kingsnakes the opinions differ a lot but no problems so far except for feeding time, where I separate them for a short period (an hour or so).
I have to add that the snakes are rather the same size.

most people i know keep european vipers in groups with out problems .
as for lampropeltis günther it really depends on the species you have and the age too , moslty adults can be keept together as long there size is similar and they on a regular feed , only with getula species id really e carefull cause they even tend to do canibalsim in adult age

Yes Stephan, I know that. Lampropeltis zonata seems to be less critical.

yes mst of them except the lampropeltis getula species those are difficult or can be

Thanks to all of you ... it´s better keep them separated because Mr Murphy is a very very "good" friend of mine - even I really don´t like him to be allways with Evil or Very Mad

...

I have run into problems twice now, both have not had any serious consequences (surprisingly). In both cases (different naja species) the male bit the female on the neck and head.

Unless they are together for breeding I always keep them separate. It just seems like the simpler option to be honest.

I have kept specimens together, but there's always the risk of an accident happening. You can help avoid these risks by having a larger enclosure with lots of hiding spaces, and by separating the snakes during feeding.

I have also seen snakes housed together stop eating, most likely because the prescence of another snake all the time causes stress. The success or failure of keeping them together will depend on the animals' temprements and the setup you provide them. However, I'm not an expert in the species you keep, so take this as just general info.

Luke Halstead wrote:: I have kept specimens together, but there's always the risk of an accident happening. You can help avoid these risks by having a larger enclosure with lots of hiding spaces, and by separating the snakes during feeding.

I have also seen snakes housed together stop eating, most likely because the prescence of another snake all the time causes stress. The success or failure of keeping them together will depend on the animals' temprements and the setup you provide them. However, I'm not an expert in the species you keep, so take this as just general info.

Well put. And this goes for all snakes, not just hots.

It would be best to keep them separate... No risk of accidents (animals biting or even eating each other). It's all been said... Wink

However, I'm one of the guys who's keeping some species together.
Proper housing and finding out if species (individuals) are tolerable to each other is the key.
I buy my animals when they are young and find out things like this soon enough.
So all this depends on (sub)species and individuals... There is never a guarantee ! There are story's enough about species being aggressive or cannibalistic to each other. Then I wouldn't even try keeping them together.
For instance this thread about one of the species you've mentioned: https://venomland.forumotion.com/vipera-f6/more-scutari-vipera-a-ammodytes-t3266.htm
It works well ( for me ), but I never leave the room 'til the snakes have finished their meal and are always around with a hook. Same experience with aspis...
But there is also the possibility to keep them together and feed them separately... I know a lot of guys who work like that.

Pascal.

Thanks to all of you for your advices ... simply to keep them separated ...
Next thing is terrariums etc ... I was finally lucky to find a great space to all of my snakes and now it´s time to build new - adult sized - terrariums to all of them. Speaking of these Viperas, I´m going to build terrariums sized 100 X 80 x 60 (lenght x depth x hight) with good ventilation (wents down in the front wall / "cold" end and back wall / "warm" end) with small heating lamps (60 W) if neccessary (if I have understand right, these sp´s dont need extra heating when you can change room temps between 19 /night - 24 /day) to all of them. So, are my plans on the "right way" as I believe or is there something I have missed ... still looking /double-checking care sheets for all these Vipera species. Seems that uncertainty is breathing more and more on my neck when the day to got them here became closer and closer Shocked

... but better to recheck than regretm ...

As with others who have posted in this thread, my preference it to keep my snakes in separate enclosures. It's just easier to keep them this way, safer, and when I introduce them for breeding, I seem to have better results. Unless there's some sort of shortage of cage space, I really don't see an advantage to keeping small groups or pairs unless you're working to breed them.

I keep all my venomous separate when housed indoors & then 2 or more of the same species when housed outdoors in "pits". Feed in pits but watch for possible conflicks or if short of time separate into tubs to feed.

Keeping together PC110132

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