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Please beware, to register at venomland you are requested to use your full name (first and family name) - nicknames are not allowed and will be not activated! thx Dear Venomland Members and Friends, Venomland is a little more than 6 years old now and by far the biggest Hot Snake community on the Planet! We want to thank all of you who made Venomland the leading Board. We are also very thankful to our Moderators and Admins for years of hard work. Now, it is time to move on. I have been thinking how to proceed and what to do with our beloved board as we reach a size, that we need to make drastic changes to secure the future of our community. As of now, Venomland is hosted by a free (well mostly free) hosting service. That was good for the first years but now we need to find a new way to run our forum. I have spend hundreds of Dollars over the years to keep Venomland up and running, and i have done so with pleasure. Now, we need your help! We need to come up with several thousand dollars for our Venomland 2.0 project, which i frankly cant pay for any longer by myself. So Venomland is asking his Friends and Members for the first time for their financial Support. Please help to keep Venomland alive, and let us move on to a new, better Portal in the Future! Every Dollar is helping us a great deal. I know, its hard times for everyone, but please spare a few Dollar for our community. If you have only 10 Dollars to spare, we are grateful, if it is more, it would be awesome. We are planning to develop a very new Venomland, with real community functions, a forum like you are already loving it and a real (online) Hot Snake Magazin. Also, there will be download areas for scientific papers, Wallpapers and more. Again folks, we can only do that if you all help. Please send me a Private Message if you want to keep Venomland alive, i will provide you with the details on how to donate Money. For now, we can accept money from creditcards via skrill (please google it, its a free service - account-details will be forwarded to you) and paypal. All the best, and for a (hopefully) nice future of our Board. Mario
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| Agkistrodon bilineatus | |
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+5Markus Gottlieb Frank Weinsheimer Michael Bollhorn Sven Vogler Mario Lutz 9 posters | Author | Message |
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Mario Lutz Lord of the Serpents
Number of posts : 1416 Age : 56 Location : Puerto Galera, Philippines Points : 8389 Registration date : 2008-03-06
| Subject: Agkistrodon bilineatus Tue 11 Mar - 14:24 | |
| Subspecies: Agkistrodon bilineatus bilineatus (GÜNTHER, 1863) Agkistrodon bilineatus howardgloydi CONANT 1984 Agkistrodon bilineatus lemosespinali SMITH & CHISZAR 2001 Agkistrodon bilineatus russeolus GLOYD 1972 Author: GÜNTHER Year 1863 Common Name: English: Cantil, Mexican Moccasin German: Mokassinschlange young A. bilineatus female at HerpaWorld Distribution: Mexico (Tamaulipas, coastal areas of S Sonora, Sinaloa, Nayarit, Jalisco, Morelos, Colima, Michoacan, Guerrero, Oaxaca, N Campeche, Yucatan, Quintana Roo), N Belize, Guatemala (pacific coast), Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, NW Costa Rica Terra typica: Pacific coast of Guatemala. Comment: Venomous! See color plate 79 in VILLA et al. 1988 and Trutnau 2001. Trutnau (2001) also presents a map with all subspecies. Agkistrodon bilineatus howardgloydi is illustrated in Penner (2001). Agkistrodon bilineatus taylori has been elevated to species status by PARKINSON et al. (2000) based on mtDNA sequences. References: Bolanos, R., & MONTERO, J. R. 1971. Agkistrodon bilineatus Günther from Costa Rica. Rev. Biol. Trop. 16 [1970]: 277-279. Burger,W.L. & Robertson,W.B. 1951. A new subspecies of the Mexican moccasin, Agkistrodon bilineatus. Univ. Kans. Sci. Bull. 34: 213-218 Calmonte, T. 1982. Agkistrodon bilineatus taylori - ein selten importierter Dreieckskopf aus Mexiko. Herpetofauna 4 (20): 26-27 Campbell, J.A. & Lamar, W.W. 1989. The Venomous Reptiles of Latin America. Comstock Publishing/Cornell University Press, Ithaca Castro-Frankco, R. & Guadalupe Bustos Zagal, M. 2004. Additional records and range extensions of reptiles from Morelos, México. Herpetological Review 35 (2): 196-197 Conant, R. 1984. A new subspecies of the pit viper Agkistrodon bilineatus (Reptilia: Viperidae) from Central America. Proc. Biol. Soc. Wash. 97: 1-135. Gloyd and Conant 1943. A synopsis of the American forms of Agkistrodon (Copperheads and Moccasins) Bull. Chicago Acad. Sci. 7: 147-170 Gloyd, H. K. 1972. A subspecies of Agkistrodon bilineatus (Serpentes: Crotalidae) on the Yucatán Peninsula, México. Proc. Biol. Soc. Washington 84: 327-334. Günther. A. 1863. Third account of new species of snakes in the collection of the British Museum. Ann. Mag. Nat. Hist. (3) 12: 348 - 365 Hoevers, L., & HENDERSON, R. W. 1974. Additions to the herpetofauna of Belize (British Honduras). Milwaukee Publ. Mus. Contr. Biol. Geol. No. 2, 6 pp. McDiarmid,R.W.; Campbell,J.A. & Touré,T.A. 1999. Snake species of the world. Vol. 1. Herpetologists’ League, 511 pp. Parkinson,C.L. 1999. Molecular systematics and biogeographical history of pitvipers as determined by mitochondrial ribosomal DNA sequences. Copeia 1999 (3): 576-586 Parkinson,C.L., Zamudio, K.R. & Greene, H.W. 2000. Phylogeography of the pitviper clade Agkistrodon: historical ecology, species status and conservation of cantils. Mol. Ecology 9: 411-420 Penner, J. 2001. Der grösste Schlangenzoo Lateinamerikas - ein Praktikum im “World of Snakes” Grecia, Csota Rica. Elaphe 9 (4): 81-85 Porras, L.W. & Solórzano, A. 2006. Die Schlangen Costa Ricas. Reptilia (Münster) 11 (5): 20-27 Porras, L.W. & Solórzano, A. 2006. Costa Rica’s venomous snakes. Reptilia (GB) (48): 11-17 Preißler, D. 2004. Alles über Schlangen. Draco 5 (17): 4-21 Schmidt, K. E, & INGER, R. F. 1957. Living Reptiles of the World. Doubleday & Co., 287 pp. Smith, Hobart M. and David Chiszar 2001. A new subspecies of Cantil ( Agkistrodon bilineatus) from Central Veracruz, Mexico (Reptilia: Serpentes). Bull. Maryland Herp. Soc. 37 (4): 130-136 Trutnau, L. 1984. Ein Beitrag zur Kenntnis des Kupferkopfs - Agkistrodon contortrix (LINNAEUS 1766). Herpetofauna 7 (35): 14-26 Trutnau,L. 2001. Einige Bemerkungen zur Biologie, Pflege und Nachzucht der mexikanischen Giftschlangenart Agkistrodon bilineatus GÜNTHER 1863. Herpetofauna 23 (131): 5-14 | |
| | | Sven Vogler Newbie
Number of posts : 23 Age : 55 Location : Hamburg / Germany Points : 6035 Registration date : 2008-05-16
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Tue 1 Jul - 5:20 | |
| Hello! The lemosespinali-subspecies is not valid, well, at least discussed, as far as I know. The three remaining subspecies produce an intergrade-form in central Guatemala. The subspecies are treated thoroughly in the work which elevates taylori to species-level (I gotta find the printout since my pdf-loaden harddrive crashed) as well in the current edition of Campbell&Lamar "Venomous Reptiles of the Western Hemisphere". I do keep one male and five females of the yucatecan form, A.b.russeolus. On yucatán no-one knows the name "cantíl" which is well-used during the remaining distribution-area. The local Mayans call that snake "Uolpoch", sometimes spelled as "Volpoch". The snakes are pretty young, just having reached maturity last fall. Two of the females had the male each for a fortnight during november/december and should give birth these days.... This is one of the females: The pic was done by Michael Bollhorn. Thanx for that Michael! greetings from Hamburg Sven Vogler | |
| | | Mario Lutz Lord of the Serpents
Number of posts : 1416 Age : 56 Location : Puerto Galera, Philippines Points : 8389 Registration date : 2008-03-06
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Tue 1 Jul - 8:55 | |
| nice specimen Sven... do you have more picture of them?
thanks for the additional informations...
cheers Mario | |
| | | Sven Vogler Newbie
Number of posts : 23 Age : 55 Location : Hamburg / Germany Points : 6035 Registration date : 2008-05-16
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Tue 1 Jul - 16:26 | |
| not many. most of them are color-slides (and the scanner went back to the editor-in-chief). but I could give you the same specimen at about two weeks of age: and at about three months age: (The camera was not the best, but I think the pics to be of sufficiently quality) I can't wait for the new litters. ... as well as a few people. Hello F.Weinsheimer! I really like these snakes. The fine facial lines are so contrasting. The white markings on the underside are so incredible white. The two-colored eyes. But....: I never had animals as agressive as these. But "intelligently" agressive, no hysterical biters. Always highly awake - they notice everything. And: Highly dangerous venom. I know of three reported cases, two horses and one woman. all died within 20 - 30 minutes. When they bite a Mastomys it usually falls down like a puppet-on-a-string when you cut the strins.... greetings from Hamburg Sven Vogler | |
| | | Sven Vogler Newbie
Number of posts : 23 Age : 55 Location : Hamburg / Germany Points : 6035 Registration date : 2008-05-16
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Sat 12 Jul - 19:28 | |
| At last! The female pictured above gave birth to at least 5 little devils. Just prepared everything for sorting them out and counting.... greeting from Hamburg Sven Vogler | |
| | | Sven Vogler Newbie
Number of posts : 23 Age : 55 Location : Hamburg / Germany Points : 6035 Registration date : 2008-05-16
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Sat 12 Jul - 20:25 | |
| Seven! Those are seven! Some data: Mating: 08. De. 2007 Birth: this morning, 12. Jul. 2008 7 young, still in membrane, but poking out. I've been weighing two with 15,7 g and 19,4 g. (still with egg and a few earth grains) The mother measures about 70 cm. The parents were all born in June 2005.
'nuff said! now I have to party!
greetings from Hamburg
Sven Vogler | |
| | | Michael Bollhorn Snakemaster
Number of posts : 286 Age : 51 Location : Hamburg / Germany Points : 6347 Registration date : 2008-05-05
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Sun 13 Jul - 5:58 | |
| Hi Sven, big congratulations from me - the long waiting find the end!
After the first shedding I´ll visit you and make some digital pictures for you!
Best regards, Michael | |
| | | Frank Weinsheimer Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 132 Age : 44 Location : Germany Points : 6243 Registration date : 2008-04-20
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Sun 13 Jul - 8:10 | |
| Hello Sven!
Big congratulations from me as well! You are totally right, I was waiting a long time for hatchlings from you (since your breeder adults have been hatchlings), so I think I can wait at least for a few weeks until I will come and get some from you. Many thanks in advance! I´m really happy for you and cross my fingers for your second female.
Best wishes
Frank | |
| | | Sven Vogler Newbie
Number of posts : 23 Age : 55 Location : Hamburg / Germany Points : 6035 Registration date : 2008-05-16
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Mon 4 Aug - 18:16 | |
| short update: all completed their first sheddings from 25th to 27th of july (last weekend). On saturday I offered some pinkies for the first time. The snakes were interested and investigated the little mice thoroughly but were obviously not hungry. Two of the three which had the pinies overnight at least killed them ... see what's gonna happen in a few days....
greeting from Hamburg Sven Vogler | |
| | | Sven Vogler Newbie
Number of posts : 23 Age : 55 Location : Hamburg / Germany Points : 6035 Registration date : 2008-05-16
| | | | Markus Gottlieb Snakemaster
Number of posts : 262 Age : 34 Location : Upper Austria Points : 6183 Registration date : 2008-08-11
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Wed 13 Aug - 17:53 | |
| Nice Shots I love the white stripes on the head How big are they actually? Greetings, Markus | |
| | | Guenter Leitenbauer Lord of the Serpents
Number of posts : 1389 Age : 59 Location : Gunskirchen / Austria Points : 7324 Registration date : 2008-05-17
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Wed 13 Aug - 20:25 | |
| Another newbie question:
How dangerous are they really? I read from "lethal venom", I read from "no known fatalities" - very large scale of opinions in the literature. Are they aggressive or calm in captivity? | |
| | | Sven Vogler Newbie
Number of posts : 23 Age : 55 Location : Hamburg / Germany Points : 6035 Registration date : 2008-05-16
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Thu 14 Aug - 18:41 | |
| @Markus Gottlieb: The adults are around 70 cm, The newborn are about 20 cm. A. b. russeolus is the smallest subspecies of the bilineatus-complex. The upper pair of white stripes (the thin ones from Rostral to eye) might turn yellow when they grow.
@Günter Leitenbauer: They are absolutely NOT calm. As I mentioned above when I was telling 'bout them: They are very aware of every movement in their surrounding, always ready to strike.
concerning the venom: depending on these snakes' rarity bites seldom occur. About half of the documented deadly cases seem to involve horses, a few sources claim them to be "the 3rd most reason for snakebites in the Yucatán peninsula" (without actual counts....the local Mayans I have interviewed claim to see an Uolpoch only once every few years) and one cited doctor said that he'd lost a reasonable percentage of people bitten by these... ([/i]fide[i] Campbell & Lamar: Vnomous Reptiles of th Western Hemisphere) I just have to say that the reaction of mice on the venom are frightening enough: when I fed the first one for the first time with a mouse it bit in a incredible fast movement and the mouse died. Without any further reactions it just dropped dead, just like turning a switch..... The pinkies which were bitten by the newborn snakes turned to amorphous skin bags filled with red fluid overnight..... One young snake bit a fuzzy a bit unlucky with only one tooth in the back, it did a few short hops and broke down, bleeding from mouth and nose....
Greeting from Hamburg!
Sven Vogler | |
| | | Gustav Eloy Serpent Chief
Number of posts : 662 Age : 37 Location : Aguascalientes, Mexico Points : 5918 Registration date : 2010-09-09
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Tue 19 Oct - 16:19 | |
| sound very scary, a friend of use to have one, she was always alert but never strike, what about their care in captivity,i would like to hear your opinions and personal experieences or recomendations about this ones, I´m hoping to get a pair soon, thanks in advance pd exellent shot and very very awesome snakes regards | |
| | | Marco Buegel Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 100 Age : 43 Location : Switzerland Points : 6201 Registration date : 2008-03-07
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Tue 13 Sep - 5:00 | |
| Hello All
Is here someone breeding russeolus and/or howardgloydi ? Would be interested in CB animals or healthy WC speciemens
Best whishes Marco | |
| | | Michael Jonasson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 153 Age : 45 Location : Sweden Points : 5713 Registration date : 2009-10-21
| Subject: Re: Agkistrodon bilineatus Wed 14 Sep - 2:50 | |
| - Guenter Leitenbauer wrote:
- Another newbie question:
How dangerous are they really? I read from "lethal venom", I read from "no known fatalities" - very large scale of opinions in the literature. Are they aggressive or calm in captivity? I used to keep an adult female that was about 65cm, a very jumpy and nervous snake that twitched when touched by the hook. This is also one of the fastest striker i´ve ever kept. You wouldnt stand a chance to react if they wanted to bite you and you happened to be close enough. About the venom, from what i have heard its more close the "lethal venom" as you put it. | |
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