Thoughts about handling.

Im intrested in hearing what the general public here on venomland thinks about some of our members handling? To me this seems very dangerous

Video replaced by link
Admin

https://www.youtube.com/v/qB_cw_uuIIQ

Hello,

I also think such footage does NOT show responsible handling of potentially dangerous animals.

Maybe Mr. mastenbroek can outline his motivation to publish such videos.


Cheers,
Christoph

one word. total idiot ,pitty guys like that ruin our pass time when they get bitten

I had some discussions with Mr. Mastenbroek in the past about that.

Quote :

Maybe Mr. mastenbroek can outline his motivation to publish such videos.

every psychiatrist could explain that way better then Mr. Mastenbroek himself.

regards
Peter

Thats sad to hear, Peter, at some point such behaviour goes terribly wrong, and then our small community is the one that suffers the consequences. Imagine those youtube videos on one of the major TV stations... would be so easy to exploit them politically


Christoph

This is only one of a lot stupid things Mr. Mastenbroek did in the past.
I`m not a psychiatrist, but I would say, that a heavy mental disease (maybe borderline) and a lot of weed are the reasons for this behaviour.
This problem will get solved in the nearer future I think, unfortunaly with some bad headlines in the newspapers for us..

Sven Foerster wrote:

This is only one of a lot stupid things Mr. Mastenbroek did in the past.

In the past?, from what i can see this is saturday evening after the Hamm show?

Amazing this guy never got bitten. If that's the case.

Davina Eisenbeis wrote:

Amazing this guy never got bitten. If that's the case.

He got bitten, and not one time for what i know.

I know it's nice to see a cobras hood, but to make a snake unnecessary angry like that.....

regards

There was an earlier Thread on this site by Mr. Mastenbroek in which he posted a series of photographs that depicted his 'handling techniques' of live, venomous snakes(please refer to: http://www.venomland.net/t2767-a-friend-came-around-and-took-some-pictures#18084 ); although, Mr. Mastenbroek deleted the photographs after some member commentary. Perhaps this video link should remain up and accessible on Venomland as an illustration on how not to 'handle' live, venomous snakes? Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

It is scary. I wonder how this person is still breathing... :S

Comment deleted by Admin for obvious Reasons...
I think Richard knows what i think about statements like that on Venomland...
Mario

What I do with my snakes is my bussines, I work for 18 years with Elapids I have been bit ironicly only when I handled snakes with a hook.

Please dont discuss me in person on a public forum if you do not know me in person.

Richard: Can you handle all elapids like this or only snakes you know? Only Cobras or other Elapids aswell?....as i said earlier it looks very dangerous to me.

Perhaps, instead of launching(more)personal attacks against Venomland members in relation to your conduct with live, venomous snakes, Mr. Mastenbroek; you could please explain the context of your behaviour as depicted in the video? Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Michael Jonasson wrote:

Richard: Can you handle all elapids like this or only snakes you know? Only Cobras or other Elapids aswell?....as i said earlier it looks very dangerous to me.

it is dangerous,a snake that dangerous should never be handeld like that,the snake has 101 opportunity's to bite him. sorry no excuse for this imo.

dave pauwels wrote:

Michael Jonasson wrote:

Richard: Can you handle all elapids like this or only snakes you know? Only Cobras or other Elapids aswell?....as i said earlier it looks very dangerous to me.

it is dangerous,a snake that dangerous should never be handeld like that,the snake has 101 opportunity's to bite him. sorry no excuse for this imo.

Dave i cant see any reason either, but im still intrested in hearing Richards thinking and ideas of this sort of snakehandling.

Hi Richard.
I'm a know-nothing here compared to you all, but you seem to say that it is precisely hooks that in your case, lead to bites.

Two questions, please. Observing you, I was just wondering.

1. Do you have a technique to make such hots handling safer? What are the reasons why it works for you? What are the advantages?

2. Don't you fear showing this has effects on beginners, thinking that bare-handed manipulations on hot snakes are possible/not dangeroux?

I did not want to respond on this topic anymore.

But I will try to explain why and how I work with my snakes.

When I started keeping venomous snakes 18 years ago I was mister hook and tong everything true the unwritten rules of how to handle a hot.

In 1997 I went to Australia for a year of backpacking and saw many of the Australian herpers handle there snakes without hooks. THey explained me allot and because of wathcing it from close by I could understand their explanation.
Later in 1998 I have worked for a while at venom supplies with Tim Nias and James Beaton, those guys learned me allot of handling techiques, Tim was the best snake keeper/handler/milker that ever walked the earth in my eyes.
On the lab. you have on hand free for the snake the other for the jigger, so hooking it with a snake hook in my mouth was not an option.
At this facility I learned really how snakes move and feel, I can read them in sigth and feel them with my hands. During this time I found out that Elapid snakes respond far better on just holding them without grib than first poke them with a cold metal snake hook.
True the years I just forgot my snake hook. on most Najas and Ophiophagus.
I would never freehandle a viper or pitviper its just playing with your life.

The kingcobra in the video I just met. A sweet captive bred Malayan kingcobra from my good friend Johan Pennanen. People who work with Kings and now king behaviour will see this animal is not angry at all its curious and observing and learning his surrounding.

Im getting sick of all those people telling myths about Naja, and Ophiophagus being right out of hell, agressive and killing snakes. Its complete bullshit they want to be left alone and not bothered. Cobras are curious and observing learning to know there owners or handlers. Maybe must some of your guys spend more time in their snakerooms observing your animals instead of being so much on the internet.

I hope I explaind my self enough for you guys.

cheers

Thanks for that answer Richard Sorry if i caused you any unpleasanties. Maybe PM next time...

Thanks a lot Richard, for explaining. I feel free though to get a bit worried for you from time
to time.

Do you encourage people doing that way?
If you don't, the video will. How do you fell about that? dosen' it bother you?

I think one must distinguish two things:
first: freehandling snakes generally
and
second: freehandling snakes including unnecessary teasing as an excessive and continuing public show act.

regards
Peter

Richard Mastenbroek wrote:

What I do with my snakes is my bussines, I work for 18 years with Elapids I have been bit ironicly only when I handled snakes with a hook.

And what is with the pictures, where you got bitten from an adult Naja kaouthia, which you was handling with only gloves?
It was a dry bite, but there are enough examples where people handled their cobras over years free and then died after a bite.
Sure this is your own risk, but it isn`t only your business, when you do it in the public and make so much videos of it.
Because then you give a large number of people a reason to attack our hobby.
Nobody would leave a word about that, if you would do it at home for your own, but when you do it in public and everybody can see it in the internet, you doensn`t have to wonder about such statements.
And attacking other members doesn`t change this fact.

Edit:
@Peter,
we had the same thought, this is the point.

There is a risk in even having venomous snakes. What is an exceptable risk, varies from person to person.

i've just been told by another user to check Mr. Mastenbroeks postings:

Quote :

..........

I have deleted also the quote here, as i strongly believe this was an attack below the belt with out any helpful information on the topic....
Mario

LOL
After Mr. Mastenbroek already published it here (what a shame!) i do not see the necessity to do anything except to ban him. (after i started another joint together with my 11 years old lover boy, ROFL)

and now serious:
That's too far, Mr. Mastenbroek! You might ask your close friend (as you stated) Mario to unban you again - no problem to delete my account then if those things should be tolerated here.

Best regards
Peter

Peter Zürcher wrote:

That's too far, Mr. Mastenbroek! You might ask your close friend (as you stated) Mario to unban you again - no problem to delete my account then if those things should be tolerated here.

This is the only right way to handle this problem in my opinion.
Even without this personal attack there are enough reasons for a serious board to ban such members.
My account can be deleted also if this type of conversation is the new standard.
The level of conversations is the most important thing, venomland is one of the best boards because of this, if this level is going lower, I see no reason why I should stay here.