Lifespan of European Vipers

I would like to know some experience about how old your vipers have lived?

Hello Sigurd,

In captivity Vipera ammodytes can get 25 years old, I have seen a few that were just over 30 years old.

At a hibernation- and breeding-site I saw 2 big adult males (at least 5-6 years old) of V. ammod. ammod. for the first time in 1989. From then on I could watch them there each spring, one of them was still alive this year, the other one is probably dead as I saw him for the last time in spring 2009.

The one that is still alive must be at least 27 years old now.

Cheers,
Rainer

Rainer Fesser , how can you make this claim that you have observed Vipera ammond. ammod to live for over twenty five years !

a) what reference have you proving this.
b) what university was conducting this program.
c) do you have blood samples and DNA to prove that it was the same two specimens.
e) are you trying to fool us !

Addtl: LOL.... Rainer Fesser , Excellent observation, i believe you face value , many snakes are long lived, i admire your consistent effort in observeing this den for these years .

Rainer,this is an extremely important annotation of the natural history of this speciemen in the wild and one can only wonder how long theyre life span would be in captivity .

Thanks

Albert.

I've never kept any of the European vipers for any appreciable period of time, but I did keep a Costa Rican Eyelash Viper, B.schlegeli, for over 23 years.

I have no doubts with the posting by Rainer which I believe is both accurate and true.

Tony Phelps has observed individual specimens of Vipera berus for over 30 years in the wild.

What - besides the fact how many more days Mr. M. will be allowed to insult people here until he is kicked - would interest me:

Do snakes still breed in high age or do they stop?

@Albert,
Some more information (don´t worry, I don´t feel offended):
Vipera ammodytes may change color dramatically when they grow but like many other species of snakes they don´t change their individual pattern. You can recognize each specimen throughout its life. Only exception: identical twins what I had once in my life.

I don´t have and want to disturb the animals for taking any (blood,...) samples, I just sit among them, watch them, take photos, write my protocols and before all enjoy it.

On the photo you can see the 2 males I wrote about in my previous post marked with a red X. The one with brown sides is the one that was still alive in April, additionall feature: Part of his tail is missing.
When I go there, I can recognize him among all other about 50 V. ammod around me within seconds. With some of the others I have to take a closer look at their pattern. On the photo you can see the variation of pattern in this species within one population. The male between the marked ones is about 20 years old.



@Wolfgang
I´m sure that is true. My observations about V. berus in the eastern alps show that this has to be expected but they did not last long enough to prove it.

@Guenter
as I wrote I don´t take this post as an offense or insult. Looking at the second part of his post I would say Albert means the first part as making fun - that´s what I take it for.

Answer to your question: I had a female Vipera ammodytes meridionalis (born in one of my terraria) that died at age 30 years. She bred for the last time when she was 30 years old. During her last 2 years she lost weight and her appearance changed like in humans when they get old. I would say in V. ammodytes 25 years is like 70-75 years in humans (in Central Europe,...), 30 years looks like 100 to me.

In Elaphe dione normal lifespan in captivity is 15-20 years, I had several females that got 25-26 years old. They all showed the same signs of senility as the 30-years-old V. ammod. but they all laid eggs even in their last year. But only 3-5 instead of 12-15 in former years.

Best regards,
Rainer

Thank you, Rainer Fesser, god save us from "The Self Made Man".


add'tl. you are exactly correct , and again let me compliment you on your excellent grasp of the English language of which was chosen to be the communication vechicle of this forum.

sincerely ,

Albert.

Thank you Rainer! Very interesting indeed. I have a Vipera a. ammodytes CB01, so this means he has hopefully many years to come.

Hello Sigurd,

good chance for many more years.

Cheers,
Rainer

Thanks for the great info.
We learn something new every day Rainer.

Rainer Fesser wrote:

'I don´t have and want to disturb the animals...' 'I just sit among them, watch them, take photos, write my protocols and before all enjoy it'.

Thank you for your post, photograph and comments, Mr. Fesser. In my view, so much more can be learned from the careful, unobtrusive and non-invasive observation of wild snakes as opposed to the 'Crocodile Hunter' lift the snake in the air by its tail and seize it by the back of the neck type 'field studies' that seem so pervasive these days. I know of one very good natural history study by Mr. Phelps where he discusses the longevity of Vipera berus in the wild. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Hello Mr. Jon Davidson,

thank you for the information. I agree, it´s a very good and interesting study. Additionally, like you, I appreciate the "careful, unobtrusive and non-invasive observation" by Tony Phelps.
As I am a member of the DGHT and the study was published in one of their magazines (Mertensiella), I read it right when it was published.

I would rather call the stuff of "Crocodile Hunter" a show than field studies. If anybody would make a film about my work it would be boring for most people and not bring any quotes.

Best regards,
Rainer Fesser

@ Martinus
"We learn something new every day Rainer" - You are right! And I learn something new almost every time when I sit among those Vipers. They still teach me and I´m eager to learn.

Cheers,
Rainer

Rainer Fesser wrote:

I would rather call the stuff of "Crocodile Hunter" a show than field studies. If anybody would make a film about my work it would be boring for most people and not bring any quotes.

I once saw a making of. The snakes (from his zoo) were put into the location and he "found" it.
But anyway he brought animals to the peoples mind. So in fact it was something positive.

Hello Günter,

like most things this has 2 (or more) sides to look at.
You are right, if done in a responsible way it can bring education in a positive way. That is something I totally support.

If not, it can have very bad side-effects. People can "learn" how easy it is to catch potentially dangerous animals. But these people don´t have the skills of the "hunters" in those films, wild animals are not used to handling, they are not sedated or cooled. There is a heroe like that in former Yugoslavia - result: a dead child, killed by a Vipera ammodytes.

Best regards,
Rainer

Sad Rainer.
But Steve Irwin always and often repeated: "Don't try this for Your own!"

The problem is: Correct and scientific work is not interesting and spectacular enough for TV. You have to choose between no animal "shows" or spectacular ones. Sad but true.

Guenter Leitenbauer wrote:

Sad Rainer.
But Steve Irwin always and often repeated: "Don't try this for Your own!"

The problem is: Correct and scientific work is not interesting and spectacular enough for TV. You have to choose between no animal "shows" or spectacular ones. Sad but true.

That's a bit defeatist. The David Attenborough docos are largely accurate and spectacular, not through the antics of ego-crazed presenters egged on by producers with dollar signs in their eyes, but because they took the trouble to actually film the wildlife properly. Of course it took more than a couple of weeks on a barely 5-figure budget to make those programs.

However, at the more budget-friendly end of the scale, did you see the "One Million Snakebites" programme with Rom Whitaker? A great factual documentary with expert presentation and narration and no herpetelevangelist antics.

There is hope beyond Austin Stevens...

Agree Wolfgang.

http://www.venomland.net/t4100-what-do-you-think-about-it#29873

Wolfgang Wüster wrote:

'...The David Attenborough docos are largely accurate and spectacular, not through the antics of ego-crazed presenters egged on by producers with dollar signs in their eyes, but because they took the trouble to actually film the wildlife properly. Of course it took more than a couple of weeks on a barely 5-figure budget to make those programs.

However, at the more budget-friendly end of the scale, did you see the "One Million Snakebites" programme with Rom Whitaker? A great factual documentary with expert presentation and narration and no herpetelevangelist antics.

There is hope beyond Austin Stevens...'

I agree; and Thank you Dr. Wuster for your imput on this issue. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .