B. nasicornis, question about reproduction

I thought I'd share a situation I've had with one of my female rhinos. In case someone has had similar experiences, hopefully they'd chip in as well, as I am not experienced in this regard...

This particular female has been copulating with a male, on and off, from July '07 to October '07.
June 4th (2008) I gave her a < 300g rat, which is pretty normal meal for her.
June 6th she had pooped, and I also witnessed her regurgitate the meal. At this point I also spotted one unfertilized egg in the enclosure. Or that's what I thought it was.
June 8th I noticed two more unfertilized eggs in the enclosure.

Since then it's been quiet, nothing special going on as far as I can tell.
Naturally I'm wondering if there will be live ones some day soon. I assume if everything inside her were unfertilized, wouldn't she have dropped them all by now? And I also assume that there is something there, taking up space, since the rat was returned two days after feeding.
Whatever the case, this is very exciting for me, and I'm rather impatienced, waiting to see what happens next...

This is the first 'egg' out of the female. It was upside down in the terrarium, so I could only see the orange stuff until I picked it up.
The two others were smaller and they did not contain a baby snake, just the orange mass.
B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1050436

B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1050436

And this is the female in question, WC '05 from Uganda.
B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1010557

strange thing christian, but you look lucky at the end, the young snake looks pretty "finish" to me, the orange stuff is dry egg joke.. dont know - why the babies was dying - normally, in a earlier stage the female will re-absorb them..

best of luck next time..

is your female drinking enough?

cheers
Mario

Thank you for the input Mario.

Yes, the baby had developed completely as far as I can tell.
I do hope next time would go better.

I would like to say that the female has been drinking enough. There was a dry period in the winter, but even then I offered water at least once a week. I'd let her drink as much as she would, if she started to drink.

Just in case someone's interested or might offer more advise/comments, here's what has happened since my last post:

June 17th: She had dropped 1 stillborn baby and 1 unfertilized egg.
June 18th: She had dropped another unfertilized egg and refused a small (~100g) rat.
June 22nd: She had dropped 2 stillborn babies and 2-3 unfertilized eggs.

As before, she's been offered water at least twice per week.
Since she's dropping dead material at rather irregular intervals, I don't have much hope for her giving birth to any live babies.

I would like to figure out what went wrong, of course.

Well, let's close this chapter, then.
This picture is worth at least several thousand curse words.

B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1050620

B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1050620

Hi Christian

This is so so sad, to actually see the picture really brings home to me how you must have felt.

Sorry my friend, here's to future success with nasicornis

Best regards,
Al

Thank you so much for the kind words Al.
I was devastated not only because this litter failed, but because I lost my favorite nasicornis female. I couldn't pick up that something was wrong and it cost dearly. Crying or Very sad

Hopefully some day I get to correct whatever mistakes I made and see live babies born...

Hi Christian...

i am sorry for your lost...
this feeling i had to many times myself....

best wishes for the next attempt

cheers
Mario

Hi Christian
Sorry man! That sucks! Its really hard when this happens and I really hope you come right in the future! What length was the female? The Ugandan ones are so beautiful!.
Cheers
Gavin

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the kind words. I know I'm not the only one to experience this kind of incident, but boy have I been saddened by it.

Hi Gavin, I agree in that Ugandans are some of the best ones around.
By my estimation, I'd say this female was around 80-90 cm.

Ouch.!
Im sorry for your lost.

Cheers
Jimma

Thanks a lot Jimmy, I appreciate that.

It's f****n' happening again...
This time with my largest female.

On Sept. 10th, in the evening, said female started to drop slugs. Within 24 hours she had dropped 16 slugs, roughly 50/50 between fully formed babies and unfertilized eggs.
After that, nothing.

Obviously I'm scared to death that the events will follow suit with the original story on this thread. In my opinion she's too big to have only 16 slugs in her.
Wouldn't mind being wrong, though... I just hope she makes it.

I'm still confused as to why this keeps happening.
She's been fed modestly, and she stopped eating on her own accord. She's been given water as much as she will drink, when she will drink. She had an access to a modest basking spot, while general temp has varied according to season. There's been a cooler, drier period as well as warmer and more humid/wet period.

Again, any creative and helpful thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
The obvious difference to the original story is the fact that this female dispelled more material relatively continuously.

B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1040651

B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1040651

Noticed something odd on one of the dead babies... They were hard/dried outside the baby's tail-end.
Looked like leeches almost. Never seen anything like it.
B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1040655

B. nasicornis, question about reproduction P1040655

Hi Christian,
So sorry mate, that's absolutely devastating to see.

Can I ask that you check the temp in your basking spot and tell me what it's at?

Cheers,
Al

Damn that sucks. I'm terribly sorry for this happening again..

Thanks Al & Sami.
It really was depressing to see this happening again.
At this point the female is alive and coiled as usual. Even shed her skin few days ago.

To answer your question Al, it varies depending on the seasons.
During the warmest months, usually June-July, the basking light is mostly off. It may be on for 2-4 hours, depending on the behavior of the snakes as well as the general temperature.

At highest it's been around 30-33C, but only for short periods of time, and elsewhere in the terrarium the temperature has been 25-28C during the summer days.
Admittedly it's difficult to get decent night-time drops in the summer, it may not go much lower than 24C if it's really warm.

Usually daytime temps are around 23-26C or 25-28C, depending on the season.
In the fall and winter night-time temps are easier to lower, and at the lowest they are 15-16C. Winter is the drier season for them.

I just checked, and right now the general day temp is 24-25C.

I have another pair above this large female, and since yesterday the male has been hard at work trying to copulate with the female. So far, no luck.
But on the other hand, I recall that female has copulated with two males in the past 1-2 year period.
We'll see what happens.

Sept. 24th: 2 unfertilized eggs

Hi Christian,

So sad to hear this. The only thing I can suggest is that maybe the varying temp's are causing this. From what i've read from other long term keepers nasicornis thrives best in captivity when kept at a steady year round day and night temp'.
I've also noticed that mine do alot better since i've followed this rule.

Not much I know, but I sincerely hope you manage to find out what causing this.
All the best mate,
Al

Hi Al.

Thanks a lot for letting me know that.
I'll look into keeping them at less varying temps. Cheers.
I would really like to figure out why this is happening.

Sept 28th: 1 unf. egg