| More Reptile Smuggling... | |
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+7Lennart Pettersson Sebastian Arvidsson Mats Jonsson Ari Finsk Israel M. Sánchez Magnus Karlsson Jon Davidson 11 posters |
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Jon Davidson Serpent Chief
Number of posts : 512 Age : 68 Location : Toronto area, Canada Points : 6115 Registration date : 2009-02-28
| Subject: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 28 Dec - 8:15 | |
| ...Please refer to: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20111227/argentina-snakes-on-a-plane-111227 Sincerely, Jon Davidson . | |
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Magnus Karlsson Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49 Age : 53 Location : Sweden Points : 4893 Registration date : 2011-03-14
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 28 Dec - 17:40 | |
| As much as I despise people doing things like this, the true problem is the buyers in Europe and elsewhere that make it profitable for the smugglers to continue. | |
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Israel M. Sánchez Snakemaster
Number of posts : 259 Age : 51 Location : Madrid- Spain Points : 5561 Registration date : 2010-02-03
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Mon 9 Jan - 7:17 | |
| - Magnus Karlsson wrote:
- As much as I despise people doing things like this, the true problem is the buyers in Europe and elsewhere that make it profitable for the smugglers to continue.
+1 Of course it is. | |
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Ari Finsk Snakemaster
Number of posts : 266 Age : 66 Location : Finland Points : 5795 Registration date : 2009-04-14
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Mon 9 Jan - 20:11 | |
| ... and breeders and hobbyist who don´t "dump" them out of their community, peer groups, forums etc. It´s sad to hear that "serious" hobbyist, breeders and pro-herpers enjoy those smugglers company on big reptile shows as nothing hasn´t happened ... as I have been told by several dissapointed "eyewitnesses". Public judging of those smugglers seems to be totally different than doing something to this situation ... or is it ? | |
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Israel M. Sánchez Snakemaster
Number of posts : 259 Age : 51 Location : Madrid- Spain Points : 5561 Registration date : 2010-02-03
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Mats Jonsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 149 Age : 57 Location : sweden Points : 4843 Registration date : 2011-08-04
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Mon 9 Jan - 21:10 | |
| Can start with to have only captive born snakes for sale on the shows! I know its impossible to know for non cites animals, but its a step, that the seller guarantees that the animals are CB with a paper. | |
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Sebastian Arvidsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 109 Age : 34 Location : Sweden Points : 4956 Registration date : 2011-02-13
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Mon 9 Jan - 21:35 | |
| I think it's both sad and bloody tragic that people in general, both buying and capture animals from nature the only thing people seem to care about who is doing this, it is money, nothing else .. people want obviously that animals should not be in nature at all ... not only is the number of people on the earth increases as we devastate the forest and the animals' homes to build new cities, but we also take animals from the wild back to ourselves in order that the species is rare and can give a good money market if I may say my, I think this is pathetic .. would you care about the animals you love, people would stop trading and keeping wild caught animals.
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Mats Jonsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 149 Age : 57 Location : sweden Points : 4843 Registration date : 2011-08-04
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Tue 10 Jan - 3:47 | |
| Actually to hunt/collect from a sustainable stock like other animals for personal keeping would not be a problem so all wc animals are not bad, but to trade with them in high numbers illegaly will never be ok! | |
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Sebastian Arvidsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 109 Age : 34 Location : Sweden Points : 4956 Registration date : 2011-02-13
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Tue 10 Jan - 7:44 | |
| the worst thing you can see people offer is WC snakes that are very endangered its so sad that you going mad against this people who do not know better.
Last edited by Sebastian Arvidsson on Tue 10 Jan - 18:59; edited 1 time in total | |
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Magnus Karlsson Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49 Age : 53 Location : Sweden Points : 4893 Registration date : 2011-03-14
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Tue 10 Jan - 14:49 | |
| [quote="Can start with to have only captive born snakes for sale on the shows! I know its impossible to know for non cites animals, but its a step, that the seller guarantees that the animals are CB with a paper.[/quote] - Mats Jonsson wrote:
- Actually to hunt/collect from a sustainable stock like other animals for personal keeping would not be a problem so all wc animals are not bad, but to trade with them in high numbers illegaly will never be ok!
Hahaha! Mats it is funny that you make these statements considering that you are a close friend with the most well know smuggler in Sweden, a person who constantly sell WC animals labeled as CB. | |
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Israel M. Sánchez Snakemaster
Number of posts : 259 Age : 51 Location : Madrid- Spain Points : 5561 Registration date : 2010-02-03
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Tue 10 Jan - 17:21 | |
| So if the 'large numbers' have a CITES number attached is OK? Despite the many thousand animals dead per year in the large legal imports? Smugglers are a problem, but not the only one... | |
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Ari Finsk Snakemaster
Number of posts : 266 Age : 66 Location : Finland Points : 5795 Registration date : 2009-04-14
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 5:07 | |
| Magnus ... thanks for that You are the first person who actually SAY something straight ... | |
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Lennart Pettersson Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 40 Age : 57 Location : Stockholm, Sweden Points : 5046 Registration date : 2010-08-31
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 5:35 | |
| - Ari Finsk wrote:
- Magnus ... thanks for that You are the first person who actually SAY something straight ...
I second that! | |
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Mats Jonsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 149 Age : 57 Location : sweden Points : 4843 Registration date : 2011-08-04
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 5:53 | |
| Magnus you have not been caught by the customs. But you have bragged bout your trips to greece taking wc greece protected turtles. And bragging how you smuggled greece vipers in camera tripods And you work at swedish agriculture department? Yes i know a person who got convicted for having smuggled 10!!!! Snakes wow is that a crime? Your and Lennarts comments say more about you than about me. Grow up! | |
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Mats Jonsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 149 Age : 57 Location : sweden Points : 4843 Registration date : 2011-08-04
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 5:57 | |
| Ari? What was the straight saying in that ?
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Magnus Karlsson Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49 Age : 53 Location : Sweden Points : 4893 Registration date : 2011-03-14
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 6:31 | |
| - Mats Jonsson wrote:
- Magnus you have not been caught by the customs. But you have bragged bout your trips to greece taking wc greece protected turtles. And bragging how you smuggled greece vipers in camera tripods
And you work at swedish agriculture department? Yes i know a person who got convicted for having smuggled 10!!!! Snakes wow is that a crime? Your and Lennarts comments say more about you than about me. Grow up! Hahaha yeah right! This story really has changed over time. First I was accused to have been on the same trip as a person that was supposed to have smuggled animals. Then I was accused of actively partaking in the smuggling and now you say that I have bragged about smuggling animals myself . Well, if you and your friends are going to throw false accusations at people, at least try to stick to the same story. It becomes quite silly when you and your partners give different versions each time :-). Mats by the way, I have never owned or sold any greek vipers ( V a meridionalis). I have owned V a ammodytes though. But that was more than 10 years ago :-). Moreover, I have never owned or sold any european turtles or tortoises either. And one more thing Mats. People who actually knows me also knows that I don't hesitate to say what I think about the commercial trade in WC animals to anyone. I have lost a friend or two and gained enemies instead for doing that. Your accusations falls pretty flat to the ground. | |
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Sami Heikkinen Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 173 Age : 41 Location : Finland Points : 5831 Registration date : 2008-11-04
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 6:36 | |
| Oh the things are going that bad in Sweden? OK personally I don't like many of the rumours etc. I have heard from Sweden in past years, but guys you really need to focus on the hobby and well-being of the animals. Hope the smugglers get what they deserves and imo all animals from such hobbyist should be taken away..
Thansk from the link Jon, I read little about it from another source some time ago and it really sucks. I don't see the point in this kind of thing. If you really need money that bad why just smuggle drugs instead.
Last edited by Sami Heikkinen on Wed 11 Jan - 6:58; edited 2 times in total | |
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Mats Jonsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 149 Age : 57 Location : sweden Points : 4843 Registration date : 2011-08-04
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 6:53 | |
| Magnus! I have heard the same story every time.
And Yes Sami! Its a couple of people who writes and posts things about people on every forum instead of focusing on the hobby. Its pathetic i know. All I wrote in this thread before getting accused, of those people you can see above, they cant approve that people have different oppinions. reg Mats | |
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Magnus Karlsson Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49 Age : 53 Location : Sweden Points : 4893 Registration date : 2011-03-14
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 7:10 | |
| [quote=Yes i know a person who got convicted for having smuggled 10!!!! Snakes wow is that a crime?[/quote]
Mats, yes it is actually a crime to smuggle animals. It is very rare that people are convicted in a court of law for legal actions...
Second, the amount of snakes is maybe not the most important part of the mentioned case. What's more alarming is that one of the involved species is on the IUCN red list (thus considered critically endangered) and another is a CITES appendix II listed species. | |
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Mats Jonsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 149 Age : 57 Location : sweden Points : 4843 Registration date : 2011-08-04
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 7:51 | |
| Magnus dont be silly!!! is it a crime to know a person who has a conviction? If you read it again maybe even you can understand it!
If you should dismiss all people who have done something wrong in the past, i bet there would not be any friends to nobody! I think all people including my self have done things that not are ok! But if you change and know you did wrong, why should a person be punished for the rest of his life for it? I can forgive a person who have done bad things. I also dont se why beeing a friend to a person, I must accept the wrong he has done. Everybody makes some bad decissions in life, if you dont see that im really sorry and pity you. | |
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Jacob Ohlin
Number of posts : 1 Age : 40 Location : Sweden Points : 4693 Registration date : 2011-06-30
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 19:01 | |
| I don't know either of you and I'm not having opinions on your friendship, but seriously Mats. Since the past, in this case is being quite recently, you don't think you're being overly dramatic with your talk about being "punished for the rest of your life"?
Forgiveness is a virtue, but this thread is about smuggling of endangered species. I think it's in place to keep the possible repair of a particular smugglers reputation or a discussion about people making "bad decisions" out of this.
Last edited by Jacob Ohlin on Wed 11 Jan - 22:39; edited 1 time in total | |
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Mats Jonsson Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 149 Age : 57 Location : sweden Points : 4843 Registration date : 2011-08-04
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Wed 11 Jan - 22:07 | |
| Well all I meant was: If I have a friend who did something wrong in the past, should I discard that friend for a thing he did? I didnt start this discussion, If you read the thread! I was jumped on as usual by the same people for stating my seeing on wc animals from sustainable stock! They went off topic and started accusing me, just for knowing a person that I clearly stated that I dont agree with his action, wich he also know, I have never defended his action and i will never do. So just magmus and lelle cant stay on topic is not my fault. reg Mats | |
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Ari Finsk Snakemaster
Number of posts : 266 Age : 66 Location : Finland Points : 5795 Registration date : 2009-04-14
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Thu 12 Jan - 1:10 | |
| - Mats Jonsson wrote:
- Ari?
What was the straight saying in that ?
Sorry my english. Didn´t ment that saying something about you is what I have waited and expect - because I don´t personally know nothing abt you ... only that talking openly about smugglers/-ing is just right ... | |
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Jon Davidson Serpent Chief
Number of posts : 512 Age : 68 Location : Toronto area, Canada Points : 6115 Registration date : 2009-02-28
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Mon 16 Jan - 0:40 | |
| A couple of books that might be of possible interest on this subject: 'The Lizard King: True Crimes and Passions of the World's Greatest Reptile Smugglers', by Bryan Christy, 2008; and 'Stolen World: A Tale of Reptiles, Smugglers, and Skullduggery', by Jennie Erin Smith, 2011(Please refer to: http://www.amazon.com/Lizard-King-Passions-Greatest-Smugglers/dp/0446699756/ref=sr_1_?s=bo and http://www.amazon.com/Stolen-World-Reptiles-Smugglers-Skullduggery/dp/0307381471/ref=sr_1_1 ). Sincerely, Jon Davidson . | |
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Manuel Ebert Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 111 Age : 36 Location : Mainz, Germany Points : 5377 Registration date : 2010-01-18
| Subject: Re: More Reptile Smuggling... Mon 16 Jan - 1:29 | |
| I'm currently not very often here in the forum, but the last two discussions, which I've read, have ended up so that we (the members) accuse each other and insist on our own points of view. Of course, this forum must provide the opportunity to express our own opinions, on a certain interpersonal acceptable level of course, even if it is negative towards others and this is even important if we want to work on the reputation of our hobby, business, commerce, however, but don't we go in some respects a step too far? I'm just reading and shaking my head ... Sincerely, Manuel Ebert | |
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