Differentiating between Dendroaspis angusticeps localities

Never seen a Dendroaspis angusticeps with black coloration between it's scales.
Can you post a picture?
Is there a difference in form or size of the scales in your two specimens?
regards
Peter

Yes, strange...are you sure it's a D.angusticeps?
I will be curious too to see a photo.
Thanks!

Well, i know that the green color can be very different in angusticeps - lighter or darker green - even a yellowish green is possible. Some specimens can have a few yellow or blue spots.
I've never heard of black between the scales in this species, but even if it isn't that prominent it would be interesting to see a picture.
If the size of the scales is the same we can at least exclude Dendroaspis viridis.
regards
Peter

You can upload it directely from your pc:

Go to "host an image"
click Durchsuchen/search
open the picture
click send
copy the link (second one of three)
put the link in your message and send

http://thereptilereport.com/beautiful-green-mamba/

Peter,I hope you don't mind me posting a link to another website. Here is a photo of Dendroaspis angusticeps with the black inter scales.

No problem at all, Mark!
Very beautyful Dendroaspis angusticeps.
My specimens do also have these interstitial skins which i would describe somehow as dark, but not that jet black as yours.
Really an outstanding specimen - unfortunately i cannot tell you if that's depending on locality and if yes which locality it could come from.
regards
Peter

Very nice yes, but have you seen the picture down this one? affraid

Oh my God - someone's going for a Darwin Award.
What did Einstein say: The universe and the human stupidity are boundless - but i'm not that sure in the universe.

Peter Zürcher wrote:: No problem at all, Mark!
Very beautyful Dendroaspis angusticeps.
My specimens do also have these interstitious skin which i would describe somehow as dark, but not that jet black as yours.
Really an outstanding specimen - unfortunately i cannot tell you if that's depending on locality and if yes which locality it could come from.
regards
Peter

Thanks Peter but its not my snake. It's one I found on the Internet but answers the question as to whether they exist. I have seen one for sale in Hamm a few years ago. It was a very young specimen, less than one year old. If they were a locality form, we would probably have seen and identified them by now. I think perhaps they are just a colour anomaly. Just like the specimens with blue coloration that we see from time to time.
Regards. Mark.

Drew Edwards wrote:: Peter, the black doesn't appear in a photograph. It's something you have to see in person.

What can be seen, can also be photographed!

No subspecies of angusticeps have been described so far.
I think this phenomenon belongs to the normal spectrum of variation in colour.
If you check google images you can find all nuances of interstitial skin colouring - from light grey or light brown to dark grey or brown or black - even dark blue.
It seems to me that these black skins are more common in dark green specimens, but that's a hypothesis which needs to be verified....
We have to consider ontogenetic colour changings too - one of my specimens has been sold as a dark green South African specimen as a juvenile/subadult and changed to a light yellow green as an adult. Unfortunately i dont have any older pictures.
regards
Peter

See you this link: Dendroaspis intermedius
Broadley a Blaylock (The Snakes of Zimbabwe and Botswana, Chimaira 2013) revalidation of Dendroaspis intermedius

The link leads to a paper published in 1865.

Yes, but Broadley a Blaylock (2013!) have revised species Dendroaspis angusticeps and revalidated "new" species D. intermedius as D. angusticeps from central Mozambique and north. Results also supports morphology genetics (cf. Wüster). Dendroaspis angusticeps remains only in SA.

I do not think that serious taxonomical revisions will be published in books you mentioned.
So my question is: where has this revision, revalidation of an "old" or description of a new species or whatever been published under the rules of the code?

The name – intermedius - (Gunther, 1865) for the populations from East Africa was recently used by D. Broadley and R. Blaylock in their book about “The snakes of Zimbabwe and Botswana”(Chimaira, 2013). This “revalidation” is based on still unpublished results (although some results were already published in the form of abstract of some “conference”, but sorry I don´t know now where :-( of a revision (based mainly on molecular analysis + but plus morphology) of this group of green mambas, made by D. Broadley and W. Wuster and other co-workers. The results will surely be published, but I don´t know when...You must to ask the authors.

It is up to you whether you use the information in the mentioned book or will wait for “serious revision”...

This is what Johan Marais have to say about the topic.

Seems that the splitting up of the Boomslang and Green Mamba in the "Snakes of Zimbabwe and Botswana" by Broadley and Blaylock has some of you confused. let me deal with the Boomslang first: Thomas Eimermacher has been working on the genetics of Dispholidus and found significant differences between those from the Southern Cape, Western Cape and Eastern Cape as opposed to the populations elsewhere. Dr. Don Broadley, in his new book, decided to split them into the Cape Boomslang (Dispholidus typus typus) and the Common Boomslang (Dispholidus typus viridis). The species account in Don's book is the only reference to this split and there are no other recent publications on this subject. I guess it will be more clear once Thomas publishes his results. As for the Green Mamba it is a similar situation. According to Don the molecular data for Tanzanian specimens differed markedly from those from KwaZulu-Natal and he split the Green mamba (formerly Dendroaspis angusticeps) into two species - the Southern Green Mamba (Dendroaspis angusticeps) from KZN and the Eastern Green Mamba (Dendroaspis intermedius) from elsewhere further north. Again, these changes have not been published elsewhere. It appears that molecular data from specimens from Mozambique fit in between the two species so it will be interesting to see what the taxonomists are going to make of this in the near future.

I was recently made aware of this thread, and will thus add a few comments. Don Broadley and myself have been working on the systematics of dispholidine snakes for a number of years now. With regard to the genus Dispholidus, we have in fact found solid evidence of a phylogenetic structure that is going to lead to taxonomic revisions within the genus in the near future. The taxonomic revisions made by Broadley and Blaylock (2013) were their own, even though they were based on some of our data. However, our own taxonomic revisions are going to be based on a significantly larger, more complete data set, and are unlikely to be congruent with the changes proposed by Broadley and Blaylock (2013).

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