any tips on breeding schlegelii

Hi guys

I have had my male and female in together for a while now

Any have any tips on breeding them like temp drop etc

Many thanks Keith

Keith,

I'm surprised no one has responded yet, but I have a few observations on reproducing this species. While others keep their animals together throughout the year, I generally have had good success with keeping this species apart and then introducing them on a periodic basis. They may breed throughout the year, but the vast majority of my successful matings have occurred in the spring with the females giving birth in August/September. My animals are exposed to incidental seasonal temperature fluctuations with the lows getting down to 19-20 C during the evening and bouncing back up to 27-28 C during the day. Humidity and light cycles are also lower/shorter during this period. As temperatures begin to rise in the spring, I tend to mist my cages more and also lengthen the light cycles. I introduce the females into the males cages during the day and observe for interactions especially during their nocturnally active hours. If nothing occurs within a week or so, I separate them and try again in a week or so. Introductions must be made very carefully as I have had females strike and kill males during non receptive periods.

Now having said this, my impression is that some males tend to be better breeders. Sometimes after witnessing a number of matings I will separate the pairings and unfortunately find that the females will throw infertile masses several months later. This species might be the "corn snake" of the pitviper world as it is extremely easy to reproduce. I am sure there are other methods (like keepng them together throughout the year and not manipulating the environment) that bring success also.

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Best of luck

Michael

I've my schlegelii the whole year together in 1 cage, that's 1 male with 2 females.
and I got 3 times in a row offspring the last 3 years from both females

I don't do any thing special with less humidity or daylight

great thanks for your comments guys

Yes,I could see both of those methods working.The key is established animals that are used to your set up and are going through the same cycle whether you think your cycling them or not.I keep my animals separate until the March rains of South Texas begin...I also did this in Colorado but later in April/May because of the more Northern latitude.Basically when its showing signs of Spring,I pair up my schlegs,give them a good misting so they're feeding response gets shut down and introductions are always bite free.This is the only time I ever mist my schlegs and for two reasons-to mimic the rains and like I said before,tone down the feeding response.I'm always female heavy so I'll rotate the males with the females for 4-6 weeks,misting every few days and especially when its raining outside.Thats it.I separate the males and keep feeding my females every 3-5 weeks and sometime between Sept and Nov. they always drop.I've used this very simple recipe for almost 20 years now and it's always done me right.
Good luck

There are a couple of reasons I tend to keep my animals separate except for reproductive purposes- the first is that it tends to make feeding alot easier. I have had instances in the past (ie emerald tree boas, mussuranas etc) lunging at the same prey item even though they were at opposite ends of the cage. While non venomous feeding mistakes can usually be easily fixed, it is a bit more problematic when dealing with venomous species when kept together. The second reason I keep them separate is that I am a firm believer of the "separation makes better lovers" 'theory'. Providing a newly introduced stimulus (like a female snake) at the right time of the year into the male's cage will usually make the male snake immediately interested in and target the new introduction w/copulation usually following.

Just a thought.

Michael

true, if your cage isn't big enough for 1.1. animals , you should keep your schlegelii separate.
much easier to feed this way.

however my cage's are big enough for 1.1. , and I use real plants.
so what I'm trying to say is that it depence how you are hold your schlegels

Brook -

That's interesting & a bit surprising to hear you otherwise do not mist your schlegs. In all honesty I believe that is the first time I've heard such a thing. However, you have a long record of success, so...good on ya!

Are you talking breeders only, or neonates too???

I guess yours drink out of a bowl? Is that bowl elevated? Does it have a bubbler or air stone to jostle the water? (I've done such a thing for long vacations, and have never come home to dead or dehydrated-acting snakes. But my routine is hand-misting. It just helps me get in and look them over closely.)

And, how do you maintain ambient or cage humidity without some misting? In-cage via large water bowl, deep substrate, and/or natural plants? Or whole-room with a humidifier?

Finally, one last husbandry question. Most American keepers assert schlegs do better in smaller, simpler enclosures, but there's a Dutchman here who posted pics of his in a large naturalistic enclosure (specifically, a paludarium - Wagler's wonderland, ha ha). This is much more to my tastes, and experience. What's your experience?

Thanks,
Jimi

I use a misting system for my adult schlegelii, its spray every day 'cause they drink from the leafs. (the whole year )
every 3 weeks I put 3 liters of water in the cages, good for the plants.........and the schlegelii


the babies live in small cages , as you can see there is indeed a "waterbowl" with a air stone in the water.
babies need HIGH humidity !

Jimi,lol,yes most are surprised when I say I dont mist Eyelash...I get the same response when I say I dont mist my Chondros either.Misting does more damage than good for most because theres an understanding that most arent aware of.This understanding is knowing when NOT to mist.Chondro collectors lose most of their animals from RI's that I believe are due to misting...not just misting but misting at the wrong time.I dont want to go on and on but basically mist a Chondro in the morning when it's cool it's chances of getting an RI and later dying are off the charts.Now with Eyelash I dont consider them as sensitive but I never really had a reason to mist them.In the 80's when I began keeping schlegs I noticed babies would blow their throat out when they were really wet and humid.If I dried them out they would cease doing this.....never kept them wet since,never mist them ever.My mentality with Eyelash is rediculously simple.A 58 qt. tub from Wal-Mart,drill about 50-60 small holes per side,no substrate other than paper towel, and a cat litter bowl for water from Wal-Mart that almost takes up the whole bottom of the tub and perches.This set up is about $8 and works better than any set up I've ever used for schlegs.I change the water weekly,never mist(except in Spring),dont use any sort of basking and they hit low to mid 70's for NTL's and 81F during the peak of the day.I do use a 60 watt basking spot(incandescenty bulb) for gravid females and this just kind of hangs outside of the tub and covers one corner of the cage.She'll sit on the ground for months near that warm spot cooking her babies to perfection.I also keep lateralis and bicolor like this and in fact the only species of Bothriechis I let bask are my nigroviridis and thats only because right now they like it in the 50'sF. so they have a heat source for a few months during the winter.Now dont get me wrong,I love the big,clear displays you see in the zoos and I like the rain chambers I've used to breed lateralis but it also has to be cost feasible when keeping over 100 animals.
Marcel-thats a nice set up and I also am getting more into the food-grade polycarbonate.It looks beautiful and can be worked with drill bits much better than glass.Much more expensive than plastic tubs but the clarity and quality is well worth it.

Marcel

Nice cages! I keep my young primarily in plastic shoe/sweater boxes w/holes drilled in the sides (strictly utilitarian), but your rack enclosures are what I consider 'first class'. It is always nice to see cages that inspire and want me to become a better keeper.

Regards

Michael

Thanks very much Brook and Marcel.

Brook, your setup sounds like what a lot of American keepers use for their schlegs. With 100 animals I can totally understand. Ditto juveniles esp "fresh outta mom" (aka "PITA"). I guess what I don't understand so much is when a guy with a couple of adult snakes keeps them like that. It works fine, but seems totally unnecessary and almost like cheating yourself of a fuller experience. That's why I'm so into the planted tall cages, some with drip walls, streams etc. I've never had the issue some folks describe, where a schleg (or other arboreal viper) will "feel anxious and feed poorly in a too-big or too-decorated cage". If anything, I think the room to roam and choose allows them to behave more "normal" than in a 10-g fish tank or whatever.

"I noticed babies would blow their throat out when they were really wet and humid" - oh man, I too have had some bad experiences keeping babies - of all arboreals except some of the "trimmies" - too humid (not really even wet). Atheris babies in particular are easy to hurt with RI's in my experience. I think you could probably hardly overdo humidity for some stuff IF you had excellent ventilation. Not a full-on breeze, but something like a screen cage.

Nigroviridis huh? How you doing with males? Delicate as hell, or not so bad? Their rep is daunting.

Marcel - Nice "Euro-style vivs"! Did you make those yourself, have them made, or buy them like that? I make all my own cages - more time and more money but you get exactly what you want, fitting exactly to the space you have available. And you learn some skills, ha ha.

Looks like you have no drains? If you mist daily, sounds like you must be on a low-output short-duration schedule. What sort of timer do you have? And did you install a kit like Mist King, or go self-made?

Thanks again guys, sorry for the thousand Q's. I don't get to talk about this stuff much. "Pent-up demand"

Anybody following with interest, here's a site with stuff you might like (just bump up the ventilation if you want to copy for vipers!): http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/

Cheers,
Jimi

Jimi Gragg wrote:

Thanks very much Brook and Marcel.



Marcel - Nice "Euro-style vivs"! Did you make those yourself, have them made, or buy them like that? I make all my own cages - more time and more money but you get exactly what you want, fitting exactly to the space you have available. And you learn some skills, ha ha.

Looks like you have no drains? If you mist daily, sounds like you must be on a low-output short-duration schedule. What sort of timer do you have? And did you install a kit like Mist King, or go self-made?



Cheers,
Jimi

Thanks Jimi !
after using plastic containers for several years, i bought this from an old snakekeeper.
he was (just like us) into the tree vipers, but he quit.
he had them specially made for keeping the tree viper babies (trims. wagleri etc. )
This works for me so much better then the plastic containers, i'm really happy with it!
(the whole "cauge" is on wheels, and on the other side i have just as many glass cauges as i do in the front)

I have a misting/spray machine , wich the use with poisonfrogs. (bought it)
I use a minut timer with a LCD screen on it, I mist/spray 1 minut every day. (just before the lights go off)
but that's just for the adult schlegelii (and other trim. spec. overhere)

like i said, the babies have a waterbowl that's in their enclosures with an airpomp in the water.

Jimi, what do you mean with " a low-output short-duration schedule"
my english is that bad, i really don't have a clou what you mean by that

Quote :

a low-output short-duration schedule

Oh, sorry - "short-duration" just means "not for very long" - a minute is not very long. You need to use a digital timer to get that, as you have. (Me too - the dial-analog ones are fine for lights, but not for misting, to me. Except in a rain chamber where your rain goes on for a long time.)

"Low-output" would be something ~ or < 1 gallon per hour (gph) or ~/< 4 liters/hr. Only misting heads or small drip emitters can accomplish this.

(Hey, since it's also a sort of English lesson, it's "clue", there is no such word as "clou". Both look more French than "English" to my eyes, ha ha. But English has many contributors to its history, and to its present. Maybe soon we'll have a "clou" for something.)

So anyway 1/60 of a gallon (one minute's flow) is about 2.1 fluid ounces (1 gal = 128 oz) of water into your cage, or 1/15 of a liter is about 67 ml (1000/15).

In a small cage with no drainage, that could be a very problematic amount of water to input every day! But you say this is only with your adults, and say they're in a large cage with live plants, and obviously it's working fine for you. I've also run this kind of spray regimen in drain-less, planted large cages, without problems. (Until/unless your mist heads develop a leak and flood you!) I've built my own systems, and used one from Hagen for a while, but now I'm faithful to MistKing http://www.mistking.com/home.php. Very solid product w/ excellent customer service! But I still like a drain, in case of leaks into the cage.

How do you like those narrow-leafed Croton plants you have with your juveniles? They don't grow too fast? I've never used them, they look OK.

Have you posted photos of your adult set-up? I'm curious how large is the cage. As I said before, many Americans claim agitation or nervousness or something in schlegs kept in large planted cages, while I have not experienced this (only having kept ~ 6-8 of this species). Since yours are breeding every year, it doesn't look like yours are too upset...

Cheers,
Jimi