Learning path to get to Naja's

Hello everybody,

I just recently got onto the forum as I plan to get into the "hot" part of the hobby.

I'm starting my learning journey in a a couple of weeks now with the mandatory training course and examination to get the holly grail in Switzerland "The" permit.
My goal as a keeper would be to be aible to maintain Naja Atra in a couple of years and I would like to prepare myself in the best possible way to get there.

So I was planning on getting an Aspidelaps Lubricus Lubricus as starter "hot" at least for a whole year before concidering eventually stepping up.
It looks to me like a better suited first snake (as opposed to vipers) to get to Naja's. I'm aware that NO snake is a good "training" for another snake, but the behaviour seems to be "relatively" close to juvenile Najas.

So here it comes to my question :

What could be a "next step", if any, between the Aspidelaps and a Naja Atra ?

Cheers,

Brian

hmm.....maybe a juvenile Naja atra .......or a juvenile non-spitter such as Naja naja?
But what are you going to do with any "next-step-snake" if it's not your goal to keep it definitely?
There will be quite a big difference in your head between Aspidelaps and any Naja species. An Aspidelaps accident will almost certainly not cause a life-threatening situation - a Naja accident might easily do.
Do you have a mentor and the possibilities to start handling exercises with different species? If yes, you (and the mentor) will soon figure out if you feel well or not while handling different species.

Thanks Peter for your valuable response,

By "Next-step-snake" I was thinking of a snake that would help gain experience with the behaviour that would be helpfull to work with Naja atra.

I will of course keep the animal definitly. Maybe I explained myself wrong with the "Next-step", but in no way I concider an animal as "use and drop". I do love most species of naja, but some of them are just not for me (Naja Melanoleuca which freak the hell out of me pale

)

I know of someone who could get me into the handeling of Naja's but as mentionned, this would be in a couple of years.

Brian.

Hey Brian, good to here from a responsible thinking person, Peter's advice is spot on , my opinion is you should not invest time in a physical relationship with venomous reptiles , you may be more well suited for an academic one.
If thirty six years of age is your correct age than it seems to me you've developed an emotional impression with Naja's
perhaps with their hood spreading characteristics, at seventeen my first venomous snake was a wild caught adult Lachesis stenophrys i tamed it down like a pet Boa constrictor, many others first snake are Taipans and Najas At approximately that age seventeen or younger and have done this with out a second thought and they go up from there without looking back.
Najas are very "hands on " they frequently have dry sheds and stuck eye caps add to that frequent cage cleaning on account of their fast metabolism..so shift cages wont help you much. At your advance age ive only heard of Biologist or scientist applying for a venomous permit for research in conjuction with trying to find an effective vaccine for Ebola or similar services to humanity.

Albert J. Montejo wrote:: Hey Brian, good to here from a responsible thinking person, Peter's advice is spot on , my opinion is you should not invest time in a physical relationship with venomous reptiles , you may be more well suited for an academic one.
If thirty six years of age is your correct age than it seems to me you've developed an emotional impression with Naja's
perhaps with their hood spreading characteristics, at seventeen my first venomous snake was a wild caught adult Lachesis stenophrys i tamed it down like a pet Boa constrictor, many others first snake are Taipans and Najas At approximately that age seventeen or younger and have done this with out a second thought and they go up from there without looking back.
Najas are very "hands on " they frequently have dry sheds and stuck eye caps add to that frequent cage cleaning on account of their fast metabolism..so shift cages wont help you much. At your advance age ive only heard of Biologist or scientist applying for a venomous permit for research in conjuction with trying to find an effective vaccine for Ebola or similar services to humanity.

Dear Albert,

Thanks for your reply. I totally respect your point of view and I can imagine that it could look strange that a 36 years old is willing to start to interract with venomous snakes.
That beeing said, I'm the kind of person who takes his time instead of diving head first into something. No exception for keeping venomous snakes.

I do not estimate that at 36 I'm too old to start to keep wild animals (I will never call a venomous snake or any snake for that matter, a pet).
I'll never taught that 36 would be conciderd an "advanced age" in something else that professionnal sports tho Very Happy

The evilness of life is that your're allways told you are either too young or too old to do something.

As every feedback is worth taking in account I'll keep this in my mind.

Kind Regards,

Brian

Some quick update Smile

I passed this examinations and got my license to keep venomous snakes (so does my wife Very Happy

)

She has already choosen her starter snake : Cryptelytrops Venustus
I'll keep my mind set on Aspidelaps lubricus lubriucus.

As for the Naja Atra learning path, problem solved. In Switzerland there are 4 categories for venomous snake permits. For the next 3 years I can handle only snakes which are in the first 2 catégories whch excludes all najas.

So the learning path will be :
Aspidelaps lubricus lubricus for 3 years
then the "Elapids training course" + examination
then I could go on with keeping a Naja Atra.

Cheers,

Brian

Code:: In Switzerland there are 4 categories for venomous snake permits

Never heard about these different categories.......
Source?

Source is the Swiss federal Veterinary office.

They work with the Vivarium of Lausanne and they have established a venomous snake list.

Each snake has a ranking from 5 to 36 pts.
Cat 1 : 5 to 15 pts
Cat 2 : 16 to 20 pts
Cat 3 : 21 to 25 pts
Car 4 : 26 to 36 pts

Points are attributed base on the following criterias :

Maintenance difficulty
Handeling difficulty
Agressivity
Venom toxicity
Medical treatment difficulties in case of envenimation.

i would love to get a link to the original source and the full list!

I cannot find such lists or special "Elapid courses" on the websites of persons/institutions licensed to offer venomous courses.

http://www.snakeparadise.ch/index.php/sachkundenachweis/vorwort
http://www.sara-ch.ch/

I've sent you a private message Smile

For the special training courses : http://www.fachkunde.ch/kurse-gtsz

As I think from your country that you speak german here are some infos from this site regarding training :

http://www.fachkunde.ch/ wrote:: Die 3 Ausbildungsstufen definieren wir in:
Stufe 1, Anlernstufe
In der Anlernstufe werden die Teilnehmer mit dem Ausbildungsstoff vertraut gemacht. Es geht darum, ohne Zeitdruck, Wissen zu erwerben, Einsichten zu vermitteln, Fertigkeiten fehlerfrei auszuführen und zu lernen, sich mit der Thematik und des Lernstoffes persönlich auseinanderzusetzen.
Ziel der Anlernstufe ist es die Kenntnisse und Tätigkeiten ohne Erschwerungen mehrmals fehlerfrei angewandt und ausgeführt zu haben.
In den praktischen Übungen wird mit Giftschlangen in der Regel an bodenbewohnende Vipern (Vipers), einfachen baumbewohnenden Vipern (Trimeresurus, Atheris) sowie ungiftigen Riesenschlangen und anderen Tierarten geübt.

Stufe 2, Festigungsstufe
In der Festigungsstufe soll das Angelernte ausgebaut werden. Sicherheit und Raschheit in der Ausführung stehen dabei im Vordergrund. Meist muss Automatismus erreicht werden. Automatisch ablaufende Grundfertigkeiten machen frei für Denkarbeit und Sinneswahrnehmungen.
Ziel der Festigungsstufe ist es, Kenntnisse und Tätigkeiten unter realistischen Bedingungen fehlerfrei angewandt und ausgeführt zu haben.
In den praktischen Übungen wird mit Giftschlangen in der Regel an Kobras (Naja), schnelleren baumbewohnenden Tieren, grosse bodenbewohnende Vipern und Klapperschlangen, kleineren Lanzenottern geübt. Die Einstufung der Tiere hängt von der Giftigkeit, Geschwindigkeit auf grosse Distanzen, Aggressivität, Eingewöhnungsgrad etc. ab und ist auch fliessend.

Stufe 3, Anwendungsstufe
In der Anwendungsstufe wird das Erlernte situationsgerecht angewendet. Die Teilnehmer oder die Gruppenführer mit ihrer Gruppe müssen fähig sein, einen Auftrag selbständig zu erfüllen. Diese Stufe ist nicht in allen Schulungen standardmässig buchbar, sie hängt einen grossen Teil von der an einem Einsatzort vorhandenen PSA und Werkzeuge für die ausführenden Personen ab. Fragen sie uns bei Bedarf an.
In den praktischen Übungen wird mit Giftschlangen in der Regel an Elapiden und grossen Crotaliden, kleinen australischen Giftnattern (Todesottern) geübt. Je nach Kenntnisstand der Teilnehmer können Vorbereitungsübungen mit High Risk-Tieren gemacht werden, vor allem bei schon erfahrenen Terrarianern.

Master
Die Masterausbildung beinhaltet den Umgang mit „High Risk Tieren“. Sie setzt normalerweise den regelmässigen Umgang mit „normalen“ Gefahrtieren voraus. Die Master- Ausbildung findet nur kurz in einem normalen Schulungsrahmen statt - die Teilnehmer begleiten die Schulungsleiter und Tierpfleger vor Ort und arbeiten bei entsprechenden komplexen Aufgabenstellungen mit. Bei Tierhaltern mit eigenen Tieren ist eine Begleitung in der eigenen Anlage denkbar.

First off, very good that you take venomous snakes seriously and follow your nation's laws.

3 years training with aspidelaps, I can't see how 3 years makes that much of difference compared to one year (if you start with adults), or less if you already have gained experience with snakes, like different colubrides.
If you can hold your self 3 years to keep just Aspidelaps and can resist the temptation, then you are very strong minded Smile

In my opinion Boigas and asian ratsnakes (as size is more alike) are even better training snakes on the road to keeping cobras.

» a few from off my beatn path.
» Some of my najas...
» looking for najas
» some of my najas
» Some pictures of my Najas