Oxyuranus temporalis breeding?

Nigel, Austral Elapidae heaven, these will be a work of art go for it ! , i have something similar here in Miami and add rare carribean palm trees to the scenery mostly from Cuba.
To me and probally the rest of Venomland this is how life should be, i think my neighbors think ive lost my mind.
Nigel 1.1 Oxyuranus temporalis / Desert Taipans have come up for sale here in the US. the guy wants 30k USD. ( k stands for thousands )for the pair cb?- what do you think...Albert

Topic has been splitted and upcoming discussions about breeding and selling of Oxyuranus temporalis have been separated from Nigels outdor pit - thread.

Quote :: 1.1 Oxyuranus temporalis / Desert Taipans have come up for sale here in the US. the guy wants 30k USD. ( k stands for thousands )for the pair cb

i expected that some time in the future - but reading all the very young stories about their discovery i must say that's very quick.
Captive born? Legally imported (in accordance with the "Lacey Act)?

Maybe Bryan can tell us more?

regards
Peter

Ha! didn't take long.

Come on guy's be realistic 30k USD nowaday's that's "lil" Wayne money for a venomous snake it's like pulling teeth the market here in the US for venomous...with all due respect and im not promoting the "Black Market" in reptiles but how can you even think that they would align with Peters pers.comment if they did they would not be worth thirty euros.
Me personally im with Hoser to me they are a brown snake with a yellow belly albeit the title of the most ? venomous land snake in the world , to some that may be worth 30k . Myself i would sell them but i wouldn't keep em id rather invest in a colony of D'Jarra Blackheaded Deathadders .

Addtl: please dont let this thread turn into an issue of legalities .

Ok , Ok... The Pilbara's Blackheaded Deathadders not the Queensland variety that's the specimen i was thinking of (top post)..Tigersnakes are fantastic but we kind 'of overbred them down here a decade ago, i know, oh well we over populated the world with even more Notechis Scutatus sorry.

Quote :: Me personally im with Hoser to me they are a brown snake with a yellow belly albeit the title of the most ?

How should we understand that, Mr. Montejo?
Do you mean just this pair available for 30k or do you (and Mr. Hoser) misbelief the validity of Oxyuranus temporalis generally?
Any references? (i love it to read Hoser Laughing

)

Quote :: please dont let this thread turn into an issue of legalities

Why not? I don't see a problem to discuss that here, quite the contrary those questions are from increasing interest in my opinion.

best regards
Peter Zürcher

Peter, i read Hoser he's actually a very ambitious and hard working herpetologist who seems to get himself in to a lot of trouble i thought it was a mistake to mention his name it may bring problems to Nigel i only met him once in Orlando many years ago.

im not at all a fan of the Elapidae genera mainly because of the shortage of the Elapidae antivenin situation in case of accidental envenomation so i dont really promote their sale in the United States. Note : they are some of the most interesting of serpents.

Raymond Hoser will be correct 90% of the time with his predictions but at the moment i think he's mad because they (Acadameia) wont accept Acanthophis Wellsi Hoser so he may be giving them a hard time with the nomenclature of O. temporalis.

As you may know Dr.Peter Mirtshin (excellent person) Expert Witness proved Raymonds theory of venom sac removal faulty and showed through scientific evidence the great ability of regeneration in ophids when an elapid upon death and autopsie had shown a completely regenerated eye behind the blind one.
This in his latest court case of R. Hoser against the magistrate in Australia.

im from the school of DNA. so till then you are all correct , Albert.

Peter , Quote about The Desert Taipan , Oxyuranus temporalis rewritten ; me, personaly im with Hoser they are a brown snake with a yellow belly albeit with the title of the most venomous land snake in the world.

Means to me that i do not think 1.1 Oxyuranus temporalis though very inteligent and owning the title of the most venomous snake on the world merits the thirty thousand dollar asking price at this time.

Some one may value that fact that it is the most venomous land snake on earth yet with no distinguishing feature's alone and worth the thirty thousand dollars, in that case if you need an exporter to prepare your paperwork and airwaybill and phytosanitairy forms please contact me
Albert @ zoobotanicals @att.net the add for the 1.1 Desert Taipans can be found on Venomous reptile org.

First of all, and i know these common names are from poor value and confusing, but Oxyuranus temporalis has been known so far as "Central Ranges Taipan".

I did not find an add offering Oxyuranus temporalis on VenomousReptile.org.

And no, thank you, i don't need an exporter, I'm not interested in 30.000 Dollar-snakes at all - and I'm happy with my group of Oxyuranus microlepidotus.

But i'm interested in the history of this rare and recently described species, and I'm interested in taxonomical relevance generally.

Oxyuranus temporalis has been described by DOUGHTY et al. in 2007 and i didn't find any serious papers doubting the validity of this species.
So, once more, if you have informations supporting your statement, I'm waiting for references, links etc.
Just repeating O. temporalis should be a yellow bellied Brown Snake doesn't satisfy me....

Quote :: Raymond Hoser will be correct 90% of the time with his predictions but at the moment i think he's mad because they (Acadameia) wont accept Acanthophis Wellsi Hoser so he may be giving them a hard time with the nomenclature of O. temporalis.

Hahaha
no further comments

regards
Peter Zürcher

One more comment were going to understand each other if it takes all day .

A) Yes there is an Oxyuranus temporalis .
B) The description of this snakes general colors are a non-descript brown dorsal side.
and a yellow lateral side.
C) Do not confuse issue with the genus Pseudonajas , THE BROWN SNAKES.

Peter im far from being an expert on the morphology of Elapidae of Australia and can offer you no more than what i have informed you about so far.

The Oxyuranus temporalis add runs till the snakes are sold most likely they have been purchased and add removed good luck to the new owners and may we soon see this snake in numbers .

addtl; Congratulations on your group of Inland Taipan / Fierce Snake formerly known as Parademansia microlepidotus in the day i studied these elapids many years ago.

Formerly the deadliest terrestrial snake known with an Venom , LD 50 of 0.01.2 and a yield of 44.2 mg. 40.

Peter ironically both the Fierce Snake and The Central Ranges Taipan were first confused and were thought to be The Western Brown Snake isnt that incredible that history has repeated itself in the case of misidentification in the Taipan specie .

Well thank you for a wonderfull afternoon and a very informative day here at VENOMLAND
Best regards Albert.

http://www.venomousreptiles.org/classifieds/detail/33134

I would imagine this would be a Hoax or the seller does not own a camera to take pics of the actual animals, in which case if it is not a joke then I'm sure now he can definitely afford to buy a very nice Camera.

Andrew

I'd agree, most likely to be a hoax. The photo used is an old one, taken of the animals now held in South Australia. I think any prospective buyer would need to be right up to speed on their taxonomy to be certain they weren't simply buying some P. nuchalis spp animals. Otherwise they would be getting some extremely expensive western browns...

I am interested in the comment made that O. temporalis is the most venomous snake in the world. Has data been published to this effect? If so, where? I am of the understanding that O. microlepidotus retains that questionable mantle, but happy to be corrected.

To me these snakes are over rated but i checked The United States Freedom Of Information Act website sect. Customs Declarations and it shows 2.2 subadult Oxyuranus temporalis declared entering The United States on April 15 2011.

For all other technical questions consult Scott Eipper. Regards, Albert J. Montejo

Albert J. Montejo wrote:: To me these snakes are over rated but i checked The United States Freedom Of Information Act website sect. Customs Declarations and it shows 2.2 subadult Oxyuranus temporalis declared entering The United States on April 15 2011.

For all other technical questions consult Scott Eipper. Regards, Albert J. Montejo

Can you post the link to that reference? I would be very surprised if 4 animals had been exported given any find of these is reported over here.

If the Aust authorities did ever approve their export, they would only do so with very strict requirements about where they went to, conditions about their on-sale, and what was to happen with progeny - which would make their open marketing for $30,000 out of the question.

That's why I think this was a hoax.

Simon, im returning your email out of common courtesy and thanks for your other reply im satisfied with what i learned . Simon, snake venoms, being complex mixtures of organic proteins and enzymes, are being studied by various people around the world in the hope that one or more of their components may eventually prove useful in the field of medicine.

The specimens from what (info) is going around localy were flipped twice before their final purchase by a firm very loosely associated with an pharmaceutical co. that intends to produce antivenins , for much less than the asking price in the add, and it doesn't even interest me slightly to know or learn any more on or about this transaction.

If this means so much to you email the person thats on the add and ask them about the details.

Albert J. Montejo wrote:: If this means so much to you email the person thats on the add and ask them about the details.

Albert

Thanks for the reply. No, this does not mean much to me because I believe it to be a hoax and I'm not going tp pursue it further.

What does interest me is your comment that they are the most venomous snake in the world - more venomous than O. microlepidotus. That suggests some work has been published on data obtained but I have never seen that. The first live specimens obtained have not been held for long, so it's very early days, but if something has been published, I am very interested in that.

Hi all,

The captive temporalis have been milked (only recently...there was a delay due to OH&S) and the results have not yet been published.

My understanding is that a total 5 live specimens have been collected (three of which killed and placed in WAM's collection).

I highly doubt that the add is true and that to my understanding there are no more presently allowed to be collected, however there are two separate groups going through the permitting stages at the moment.

Cheers,
Scott

The more i think about it Scott , Simon may very well be correct they may be "over priced" Gwardars.

What i like to see is the Cities paperwork on the Albino blackhead pythons.

Addtl. to owners of these and other like specimens im not persecuting you and hope you breed the hell out of those specimens and any other similar reptile these comments will only add to their value. good luck Al.

Albert J. Montejo wrote:: To me these snakes are over rated but i checked The United States Freedom Of Information Act website sect. Customs Declarations and it shows 2.2 subadult Oxyuranus temporalis declared entering The United States on April 15 2011.

For all other technical questions consult Scott Eipper. Regards, Albert J. Montejo

i just wasted twenty minutes of my life looking for this piece of information. put up a link if it actually exists

Jack, I'd go with what Scott has posted, it's just not the case so waste no more time on it. The "sale" looks like it was a hoax, the import info is almost certainly incorrect and so too is the stuff about venom toxicity of O. temporalis.

This whole thread has been a bit tiring.

Jack, i agree with Simon and Scott let it go, just not worth it
regards to All.

addt'l Damn, Simon i apologize for not for not quoteing my reference on the venom of Oxyuranus temporalis it was lite reading on Aussie pythons or some other austrailian forum
and it may have been pure speculation yet that's where i picked up the name Scott Eipper and read some his work (excellent and with ref.) i guess "i jumped the gun" and spoke too soon .

» Oxyuranus temporalis, a new specie of Taipan
» Locality Info For Oxyuranus temporalis
» Central Ranges Taipan, Oxyuranus temporalis
» O. temporalis
» Oxyuranus microlepidotus