Field photo-reports on VIPERA CAUCASICA new web page

A new web page VIPERA CAUCASICA :

Vipera/Pelias genus(3 species): Vipera dinniki, Vipera kaznakovi, Vipera magnifica :
photos -- taxonomy -- evolution -- morphology -- distribution -- biotopes and way of life -- biology -- ecology -- protection -- field photo reports.

Field research 2011- on Vipera magnifica page/ use links.

http://www.viperacaucasica.com/





welcome

Thanks for sharing. But to the favorites and hope to see updates from time to time

Thanks. - No problem with this, the page is out from yesterday and will be uppdated very soon!,)

Very nice Larsa, I like it a lot!

I love that page ! But I dont like the poser photos with ophiagus on Box "Sack".

But the Vipera sp. Photos and Habitat shots are absolutley stunning

Lovely page with awesome pictures love it

Hello Larsa,

Like the others, I agree, a good website with beautiful photos of habitat and animals and a lot of information.

Additionally for me there are several questions that arise concerning your project for conservation (quotation: “Captive breeding of an unique genetic line Vipera kaznakovi from extincted locality(Krasnaja Poliana region) to provide CB juveniles for russian collegues for releasing to new unthreatened biotops, probably in 2013,…” ).
Releasing cb. or whatever animals of any species in “new unthreatened biotops” is (for good reasons) not only prohibited by international rules, it may also have very bad consequences for these ecosystems. If you release the animals (e.g. V. dinniki or V. kaznakovi) in an area with a population of that species with a normal population density, the only thing you achieve is that about the same number of animals that you brought in will die – established specimens or newcomers. If you release them in “new unthreatened biotops” without this species, you introduce a new species to that area – we can see the partly catastrophic results of such actions in many parts of the world. If you release them in an area where there used to be a healthy population before that became weakened, the reasons for the decline should be found out and brought to an end before any reintroduction may be done.
And, what is very important too: The cb. snakes have been kept and raised in rooms with other animals from other origins which means they can carry any diseases from the other animals towards which they have achieved immunity. These cb. animals can bring more risk (diseases) than benefit for the population where you bring them. There are several examples for this sort of problems in reptile relocations.

Another question is: If you catch and take home a number of specimens for breeding and sell the offspring to “fill the market” – ok, that might make sense in some way and would not harm a normal population too much. But why are there so many adult specimens of these snakes on the market (ads, Houten, Hamm) that are obviously wild-caught? To me that sounds more like making money in a way that many of us don´t agree with than like your claim of being concerned about the conservation of these species.

Rainer

Quote :

2011-12: The CB V.dinniki part of VIPERA CAUCASICA project is finished. As a result hundreds of CB juveniles were offered to the reptile market.

Hundreds? really? in two years? Where did they com from? Captive bred? How many breeding pairs to produce hundreds of juveniles?
Or is there a correlation between this number of babies and the many obviously wild caught adult specimens seen on tables at the Hamm and Houten shows?

I cannot see any sense in catching/buying/importing or whatever of wild caught adults when "hundreds" of babies are produced anyway.

Quote :

Captive breeding of an unique genetic line Vipera kaznakovi from extincted locality(Krasnaja Poliana region) to provide CB juveniles for russian collegues for releasing to new unthreatened biotops, probably in 2013, in cooperation with Tula Exotarium, Russia.

Very interesting project! Some more informations available?
- where's the breeding stock from, when this "unique genetic line" has been extincted? How many specimens to work with?
- basic concepts of the breeding facility? Breeding success so far?
- What kind of field studies have been done? Which studies do judge the chances of success of an introduction in new habitats? Who did these studies and, if, where have they been published?
- Who's responsible for the project at Tula Exotarium? Scientific attendance by who?

Cheers
Peter

very nice web page. and good luck for your project.

Oh no, not another poorly-thought-through captive breeding/releasing scheme. Are you sure releasing this lot "somewhere suitable" is the best idea? Lovely website though!

Nice page. I support actions like this one but I have to agree with Rainer regarding captive breeding and possible introduction of diseases into enviroment. A single strain of disease can decimate the wild population. Wish you much luck with the project.

Best regards, BKK

The points made by Rainer and Peter are all viable. These flaws needs to be sorted out before you do anything that may actually harm the targeted species. Moreover, I care to raise some further concerns. Here in Sweden you are a well-known animal dealer. You have been selling different species of vipers for several years. Were all these animals and the CITES A-listed monitors (Varanus griseus) that you offered for sale without providing proper document numbers on http://www.terraristik.com/ a while ago part of some conservation project too?

I know that I have discussed the risks involved with releasing captive bred snakes into the wild with you in the past. One issue I raised was the risk of releasing novel parasites and diseases. You obviously didn’t learn from this discussion so my question is why you engage in conservation work when you obviously lack the knowledge and interest to learn how to do it properly? Don’t you realize that it is very easy to cause more harm than good?

The strategy of breeding and releasing animals for conservation purposes is an aged strategy. Modern conservationists have more or less abandoned the method because of its limited usefulness. The point is that animals most often go extinct because the environment has changed and when that has happened it doesn’t help to release more animals. That said, there might still be situations where the method can be used with success. What I am wondering about is why you want to introduce a “genetically distinct” line into already existing populations or into novel environments? Such a procedure may produce numerous effects as pointed out by Rainer and Peter. Here I want to point out three additional problems that may adverse effects on different levels.

First, if the idea is to conserve the distinct genetic line, then releasing it into a new habitat with novel selection pressures will cause the distinct line to change into something new. Thus conserving the distinctiveness of the line will probably fail, at least in the long run. This in combination with the risks already mentioned by first and foremost Rainer makes the idea a bad option.

Second, if animals that are locally adapted to different environmental conditions are released into an area where an already locally adapted population lives, population admixture may cause outbreeding depression and thus weakening the probability of population persistence.

Third, if the idea is to increase the genetic variation in inbred populations then I would suggest that it’s better to translocate animals from nearby wild populations that experience similar selective regimes and thus has a higher probability to contain genetic combinations that are adapted for the prevailing local environmental conditions that the targeted population experiences. Introducing animals from an ecologically distinct line that has never had any genetic exchange with the targeted population will of course increase the genetic variation but may also have unnecessary negative effects that you would not get if you use animals from adjacent populations.

Hello Magnus,

thank you for these clear words.

Best wishes,
Rainer

Magnus nailed it.

Nice web site!