Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ?

Rhynchophis boulengeri:
Are they nonpoison or rear-fanged ?
I got a bite and it was an reaction, I got a blue mark on the bite place 2 by 6 cm but no pain. The bite was the same as from a ratsnake.
Best regards Peter

Hi Peter

I say non venomous. I kept this species before and was bitten once by an adult with no affects.
I took numerous bites from babies but of course these are too small to consider.

BUT, when I got them someone did comment and say they did hear they were slightly venomous but I laughed this off.
Maybe?

Did you take photos of the bite?

I remember seeing pictures from Harold v/d Ploeg which clearly show rear fangs. I have never heard about any serious symptoms though. Maybe Harold can show this particular picture in this thread.

Cheers,

Jelmer

Hello Peter.

I think these are mildly venomous but dont hold on that. These rear fanged snakes have unsufisticated venom delivery systems. It's venom has a good chance to be potent. The fact that there is no records of serious envenomations by this species makes us think it's safe to handle. Who knows really. Recent evidence on some snakes that were previously considered not dangerous have make me handle my snakes more carefully than before. In the past I didn't have any conserns handling some snakes I now know they could be lethal. I have been bitten by Vipera Ammodytes min. 20 times in the past, but I've rarely developed symptoms. There are no records in our country about deaths in the past but there are some elsewhere. The only snakes I really trust are pythons and boas. For others I firs make a research about them before handling.

http://www.schlangenland.de/images/rhynch16.jpg

They have longer fangs, but they are not dangerous at all. There is no bite case, I have found in the past.
However, I think it is a nice snake to keep.

rgds Fabian

They are really interesting with the point on the nose. I don't really know them very well. But ilike those green colours in snakes.

I got bitten by my Rhynchophis quite frequently over the years and never had any symptoms of inflammation or even envenomation.
They do have long teeth but not in comparison to e.g. Morelia viridis of the same size.

Bostjan: If you got bitten by V. ammod. about 20 times with rarely developing any symptoms, you´ve been lucky. They can bite with more consequences too. But in my experience especially the Slovenian and northern Croatian V. ammod. are relatively calm and even if one catches them (carefully), their first bite is often dry or almost without venom. But I would not rely on this.

Regards,
Rainer

Thank you for your help everybody.
Best regards Peter

Here are some pictures I took several years ago of the enlarged tooth at the back of the upper jaw:

Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ? Boulengeri_fang1

Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ? Boulengeri_fang1

Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ? Boulengeri_fang2

Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ? Boulengeri_fang3

Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ? Boulengeri_fang4

Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ? Boulengeri_fang5

Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ? Boulengeri_fang6

Today the female laid some nice eggs again Smile

Regards,
Harold

Hello Harold,

very good photos again, showing the situation clearly, though of course not saying anything about venom-glands..

Cheers,
Rainer

Ofcourse you're right about that. But I frequently saw droplets on and around the enlarged teeth (it is also visible in the pictures above). Also the tissue around those teeth looks a little bit swollen.
The teeth are not grooved (as far as I know), so technically they do not have fangs, just enlarged teeth.

Regards,
Harold

The grooves help, but they are not necessary for envenomations, like the fangs themself (only helpful )
Dispholidus typus have grooves only to the half length of the fangs. Other species have grooves at the whole length, but cannot give nasty bites.
However, there are aglyph snake with severe envenomations.

@ Harold

I would appreciate it, when I can use some of the pics above! Credits are given

rgds Fabian

@ Fabian

no problem, you can use some of them.

What I meant to write about the lack of grooves is that they are 'technically' not opistoglyph (general definition).
Of course that says nothing about any possible danger, but (just like Rainer) I'm sure that Rhynchophis boulengeri is harmless to humans Wink

Regards,
Harold

Harold van der Ploeg wrote:: @ Fabian
I'm sure that Rhynchophis boulengeri is harmless to humans

I agree with Harold Smile

Rhynchophis boulengeri rear-fanged ? Z_7b7b9ec0

Nice shots! both the close ups and the one above.. Smile

And interesting topic..

I have pair of these and I have had some bites now and then.. angry buggers! But there has been no symptoms what so ever.

I believe most species of snakes have some toxicity to their saliva - even garter snakes (Thamnophis spp.) The toxic saliva can caused localized swelling and "itchyness" (allergic reaction). Most are absolutely no threat to humans unless one happens to have a severe allergic reaction. Think all nuts... peanuts and other nuts have a toxic compound, but most people won't have a reaction unless they are severely allergic.

Just my 2 cents

Some new facts:
The closest relatives of Rhynchophis boulengeri are most probably Rhadinophis prasinum and Rhadinophis frenatum. Both were listed in the genus "Elaphe", both have never been thought to be "rear fanged" with grooves for venom-delivery.

Best regards,
Rainer

I received my first bite from a baby and nothing terrible occurred.
This species isn't shy when it comes to bite you but I don't think that they are rear-fanged.
Even if it is the case, I am sure that their "venom" isn't a threat to humans.
Regards, P

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