| | More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... |  |
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+5Martin Romanov Ro vd Bergh Daniel Claesson jean-henri pastore Pascal Kamp 9 posters |
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
Number of posts : 565
Age : 74
Location : Austria
Points : 6698
Registration date : 2008-03-13
| Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes...  Tue 30 Nov - 17:53 | |
| Hello Arjan,
No need to worry, you don´t have to go back in time! But flipping rocks would not help you there for finding snakes. Stalking in the right places is what brings beautiful sights.
These places, like most others in former Yugoslavia, look the same today. I am still visiting these 2 places every year. The small valley starts right behind the house of my friends there. I can step out of their house (I stay with them when I´m in Montenegro) and know exactly where I can find 12 adult V. a. ammod. that have their hiding- and basking-places in a radius of about 50m. around the house. This and friendship brings me there again and again for 40 years now.
Cheers,
Rainer | |
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Arjan Breedveld
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 160
Age : 49
Location : Netherlands
Points : 5275
Registration date : 2010-11-25
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Wed 1 Dec - 8:13 | |
| Thank you Rainer,
are all the animals you see in those surroundings, brightly colord as the ones shown bij Pascal and Jean?
Or is that not the case.
Rainer, what did you mean with "cow" second picture middel animal.
Did you mean the grey animal?
Greetings,
Arjan
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
Number of posts : 565
Age : 74
Location : Austria
Points : 6698
Registration date : 2008-03-13
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Wed 1 Dec - 17:18 | |
| Hello Arjan, underneath the center of the second picture is a grey rock and directly above it there is a smaller lighter object - that is the cow (weight of cows there is about 400-450 kg.). Color: Most V. a. ammodytes in that area are not brightly colored but rather grey. Those that are bred in captivity usually are the brightest ones that were found and pass these colors to their offspring. Go to this link ( http://www.venomland.net/vipera-f6/vipera-ammodytes-scutari-see-did-anyone-have-picture-t195.htm#2228 ) , it is one of my first posts in "Venomland". In this post you can see some photos showing a small part of the varieties of this species in the Lake Skutari area. But also these photos show mainly brighter colored specimens, the majority there is dull-colored. But the amount of nicely colored V. a. a. there is higher than in most other populations I know. I add 2 photos of average-colored females that I took close to my friends´house two years ago. The specimen (among leaves) with the unnormal pattern was almost exactly where the cow stands on the other photo. Cheers, Rainer adult female  semiadult female  | |
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Neven Vrbanic
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 132
Age : 51
Location : Zagreb, Croatia
Points : 6310
Registration date : 2008-03-11
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Wed 1 Dec - 18:07 | |
| Since I saw your ammodytes many time in person Rainer, I can only say that they are the nicest ammodytes I have ever seen.. | |
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Maciej Pokrywka
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 126
Age : 35
Location : Poland
Points : 5651
Registration date : 2009-11-30
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Wed 1 Dec - 18:36 | |
| Hello,
Nice pictures guys, I will never have enough of them...
@Rainer, this year I was, along with my friends, near the place shown in the picture. The town is called Bar, a nice place to visit. We didn't have the chance to go to Virpazar (we saw it only from a train) and stay for some time by the Scutari lake, but I'll fix that next summer! :-) We also didn't have luck to find any ammodytes... The second female You've shown us is a stunner, I love such delicate deviations from usual ammodytes patterns.
All the best,
Maciej | |
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Arjan Breedveld
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 160
Age : 49
Location : Netherlands
Points : 5275
Registration date : 2010-11-25
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Wed 1 Dec - 20:23 | |
| OOOOOOHh you mean THAT COW.
Thank you Rainer for the interesting facts and pictures.
Those last two animals realy blend in well to their surroundings.
I appriciate it.
Greetings,
Arjan. | |
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
Number of posts : 565
Age : 74
Location : Austria
Points : 6698
Registration date : 2008-03-13
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Wed 1 Dec - 21:36 | |
| Arjan: Yes, they are sometimes hard to detect. The 2 females did not realize that I took these photos. I know the adult female shown on the photo above for many years already, I "visit"her each time when I am in Montenegro. I never saw the semiadult one again. I suppose she died. I suppose she had lots of parasites as she was extremely thin. Maciej: For me too the pattern of the second female was stunning. Even there you can only find very few that have such reduced pattern. I add another one for you with reduced patten. She bred several times with different males but none of her offspring looks like her. Finding V. ammodytes in nature is not difficult but if one is unexperienced and does not know where and how to look it often is a matter of luck. It took some time until I could spot them like I can now. At age 21 you (I hope so for you) will have enough time to get experienced. Neven: Thank you, I too love them as you know.  | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Wed 1 Dec - 23:42 | |
| Hey Reiner!!! Intersting post and beautifull pics !!!! You make me crazy with these V.a.a !!!!!!!  The orange one is particulary demential !!!!!! | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Thu 2 Dec - 1:01 | |
| Here are the baby of my yellow female from this year:  Female:  Male:  Male:  My breeding female gave birth 6 baby, and these are the 3 that i kept. We don't imagine the variability of colour and morph who produce Ammodytes ................... | |
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
Number of posts : 565
Age : 74
Location : Austria
Points : 6698
Registration date : 2008-03-13
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Thu 2 Dec - 1:51 | |
| Hallo Jean-Henri, ces bebés seront encore beaucoup plus jolis plus tard qu´íls sont maintenant. Congratulations, they are beauties and will be much more beautiful when they get bigger. You are right, the variability of this species is unimaginable. I have seen thousands of them in nature, have bred lots of them and seen many in the collections of many people. But each year I see new variations when I go out looking for V. ammod. in their habitat, especially in Montenegro. The orange female in my previous post is by far not the most orange one that I have seen. I add a photo of siblings of one litter at age 9 months. Their father is red, their mother pinkish-grey. As a baby the male at bottom left looked like the male on your second photo and now he is deep orange red with dark brownish-red pattern - you can look forward to the colors of yours. The female on the right now is bright orange. They are 2 1/2 years old now and may breed for the first time next year. Salut, Rainer  | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Thu 2 Dec - 2:14 | |
| Merci Rainer ! J'apprécie particulièrement les gens qui font des efforts en parlant ma langue maternelle, même si on est sur un forum anglophone !!  Like you could see, i'm a fanatic of V.a.a  it was my first snake, and i breed them from 15 years.... , so, if you breed them again and you have some particulary morph (like the orange female of your first pics, orange with black dots), you can tell me if....... I find this female particulary beautifull !!!!:  And it's not the good place for that, but Lucas.C say "hello for you" (it's my friend) | |
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
Number of posts : 565
Age : 74
Location : Austria
Points : 6698
Registration date : 2008-03-13
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Thu 2 Dec - 3:56 | |
| Hallo Jean-Henri,
et un "hallo" pour Lucas aussi svp.
I think any place is good for friendly words.
15 years - so you can be called experienced i suppose.
It was obvious before that you like this species.
I´ll keep you in mind in case I´ll have some outstanding ones.
Rainer | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Thu 2 Dec - 4:13 | |
| Yes, but you're an old hand lollll, compared to me .....
But thank you in advance for keeping me informed about ammodytes!
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Daniel Claesson
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 454
Age : 42
Location : Sweden
Points : 6237
Registration date : 2009-05-16
| | Subject: Re: More Scutari Vipera a. ammodytes... Thu 2 Dec - 16:50 | |
| @ jean-henri pastore and Rainer Fesser
Outstanding snakes !!!!
My collection of V.ammo is not near as versatile as yours but still i have some really nice individuals. I plan to niche my collection of snakes in a near future to be more about different colors of V.ammodytes sp and V.aspis sp. But i have a hard time to decide which of my other Monti-/Vipera that has to go to make room for this change.
@ Rainer Fesser
I saw that i had a e-mail unanswered from you, my mail has been down for a long period of time now and today Apple managed to get it to work so i got about 1500 e-mails to check.
I will give you a reply on that later this week.
Best Regards
Daniel Claesson | |
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