| | Vipera palaestinae.... |  |
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+7Daniel Claesson Peter Schulze Niehoff Pascal Kamp Brian Petrie Marthinus C. Harmse Joni hottinen jean-henri pastore 11 posters |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| Subject: Vipera palaestinae....  Sat 13 Nov - 5:08 | |
| Hope you like it...... one of my adult male...:  | |
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Joni hottinen
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 105
Age : 34
Location : Varkaus, Finland
Points : 5525
Registration date : 2010-02-16
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Sat 13 Nov - 15:29 | |
| you have gathered quite nice collection Mr. Pastore! please post more photos of your animals  | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Sat 13 Nov - 22:01 | |
| - Joni hottinen wrote:
- you have gathered quite nice collection Mr. Pastore!
please post more photos of your animals Yes....  After that i had all my autorisations, i began to pickup all the snakes who where dispatch in some several friends......  Now, they are here, in my home !!!! I post the pics progressively........  And thanks for your comment ! | |
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Marthinus C. Harmse
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 254
Age : 43
Location : South-Africa
Points : 6046
Registration date : 2009-04-18
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Sat 13 Nov - 22:39 | |
| Fantastic species! One of favourites. If you ever breed them then please keep me in mind. Marthinus. | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Sun 14 Nov - 2:26 | |
| - Marthinus C. Harmse wrote:
- Fantastic species! One of favourites. If you ever breed them then please keep me in mind. Marthinus.
Next year !! | |
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Brian Petrie
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 239
Age : 72
Location : England
Points : 6135
Registration date : 2008-09-23
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Mon 15 Nov - 3:47 | |
| Fantastic snake Jean-henri, I have just bought a pair of babies from Hamm, they are superb animals. They are now in the genus Daboia.
Take care,
Brian. | |
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Pascal Kamp
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 105
Age : 53
Location : The Netherlands
Points : 6153
Registration date : 2008-04-06
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Mon 15 Nov - 4:45 | |
| Great animal !  Definitely a Vipera species I have to get once... I remember the palaestinae's from Hamm. There were striped individuals as well, I thought ? Do you have a full-body shot Jean ? The front part looks very orange... | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Mon 15 Nov - 17:16 | |
| - Brian Petrie wrote:
- Fantastic snake Jean-henri, I have just bought a pair of babies from Hamm, they are superb animals. They are now in the genus Daboia.
Take care,
Brian. Sorry but until today, there are not classed in Daboia but in Vipera Genus....... It's definitively Vipera Palaestinae....  Ok Pascal as soon as possible, i will take a complete pic, of course. | |
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Peter Schulze Niehoff
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 203
Age : 53
Location : near Münster, NRW, Germany
Points : 6317
Registration date : 2008-06-30
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Mon 15 Nov - 17:50 | |
| - jean-henri pastore wrote:
- Sorry but until today, there are not classed in Daboia but in Vipera Genus.......
It's definitively Vipera Palaestinae.... Yes, Jean, you're right, so far. But as their so called next relative, Vipera xanthina, recently was put into Montivipera, I'm sure also the Palaestine Viper will not be in Vipera til the end of time ... Best regards Peter | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Mon 15 Nov - 18:08 | |
| - Peter Schulze Niehoff wrote:
- jean-henri pastore wrote:
- Sorry but until today, there are not classed in Daboia but in Vipera Genus.......
It's definitively Vipera Palaestinae....
Yes, Jean, you're right, so far. But as their so called next relative, Vipera xanthina, recently was put into Montivipera, I'm sure also the Palaestine Viper will not be in Vipera til the end of time ...
Best regards
Peter I'm also agree with you Peter, Palestine viper will be reclassed sometimes in future..... Just for the moment she still in Vipera genus. | |
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Daniel Claesson
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 454
Age : 42
Location : Sweden
Points : 6237
Registration date : 2009-05-16
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Mon 15 Nov - 18:51 | |
| Isn't Palaestine Viper in the Genus Daboia know ? or has that changed recently ?
In Tony Phelps' "Old World Vipers" the are in Genus Daboia at least.
Please do correct me if i'm wrong.
Regards
Daniel | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Mon 15 Nov - 19:41 | |
| - Daniel Claesson wrote:
- Isn't Palaestine Viper in the Genus Daboia know ? or has that changed recently ?
In Tony Phelps' "Old World Vipers" the are in Genus Daboia at least.
Please do correct me if i'm wrong.
Regards
Daniel No problem Daniel. For the moment, it's Vipera Palaestinae, but some people like Tony Phelps or some "old" people continu to class this species like Daboia. But the texts of laws say: Vipera Palaestinae. So, Vipera Palaestinae is the right term at this time. | |
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Daniel Claesson
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 454
Age : 42
Location : Sweden
Points : 6237
Registration date : 2009-05-16
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Mon 15 Nov - 20:47 | |
| - jean-henri pastore wrote:
- Daniel Claesson wrote:
- Isn't Palaestine Viper in the Genus Daboia know ? or has that changed recently ?
In Tony Phelps' "Old World Vipers" the are in Genus Daboia at least.
Please do correct me if i'm wrong.
Regards
Daniel
No problem Daniel.
For the moment, it's Vipera Palaestinae, but some people like Tony Phelps or some "old" people continu to class this species like Daboia.
But the texts of laws say: Vipera Palaestinae.
So, Vipera Palaestinae is the right term at this time. Thanx ! I will update my signs on the terrarium :-) Regards Daniel | |
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Brian Petrie
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 239
Age : 72
Location : England
Points : 6135
Registration date : 2008-09-23
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Wed 17 Nov - 5:04 | |
| Hi Jean-henri,
It is only in the old litreture that I can find it termed Vipera, in all my new references it is classed as Daboia, do you know of recent work that re-classifies them as Vipera?
All the best,
Brian. | |
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Pascal Kamp
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 105
Age : 53
Location : The Netherlands
Points : 6153
Registration date : 2008-04-06
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Wed 17 Nov - 5:23 | |
| I'm not really into taxonomy, but I think this species started of as Vipera, in the 80's and 90 's (?) switched to Daboia and now the current status is Vipera again... Someone please correct me If I'm wrong.  | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
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Alexandru Strugariu
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 99
Age : 37
Location : Romania
Points : 5267
Registration date : 2010-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Wed 17 Nov - 9:14 | |
| Very beautiful snake ! Do you have a nice female for him and are you planning to breed them ? - Quote :
- For the moment, it's Vipera Palaestinae, but some people like Tony Phelps or some "old" people continu to class this species like Daboia.
But the texts of laws say: Vipera Palaestinae.
So, Vipera Palaestinae is the right term at this time Recent and slightly less recent molecular data (I'm not familiar with any morphological studies but there probably are some) have shown that " Vipera palaestinae" as well as " Macrovipera mauritanica" and " Macrovipera deserti" are sister taxa to Daboia russelii and D. siamensis and, as such, should be included in the genus Daboia. Thus, Daboia palaestinae would be the correct classification, at least according to currently available evidence. Just because the name " Vipera palaestinae" is written in a local law text does not mean it is a scientifically correct classification Here is a link to the most recent paper of which I am aware in which the position of palaestinae is discussed: http://www.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Publications/2008_Vipers_MPE.pdf | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Wed 17 Nov - 21:41 | |
| - Alexandru Strugariu wrote:
- Very beautiful snake ! Do you have a nice female for him and are you planning to breed them ?
- Quote :
- For the moment, it's Vipera Palaestinae, but some people like Tony Phelps or some "old" people continu to class this species like Daboia.
But the texts of laws say: Vipera Palaestinae.
So, Vipera Palaestinae is the right term at this time
Recent and slightly less recent molecular data (I'm not familiar with any morphological studies but there probably are some) have shown that "Vipera palaestinae" as well as "Macrovipera mauritanica" and "Macrovipera deserti" are sister taxa to Daboia russelii and D. siamensis and, as such, should be included in the genus Daboia. Thus, Daboia palaestinae would be the correct classification, at least according to currently available evidence. Just because the name "Vipera palaestinae" is written in a local law text does not mean it is a scientifically correct classification
Here is a link to the most recent paper of which I am aware in which the position of palaestinae is discussed:
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Publications/2008_Vipers_MPE.pdf I know this paper Alexandru, most of things are very interesting, and it's not wrong to class Palaestinae in Macrovipera Subgenus !!! And yes, I have 2.1 breeding trio . | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Thu 18 Nov - 2:43 | |
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Pascal Kamp
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 105
Age : 53
Location : The Netherlands
Points : 6153
Registration date : 2008-04-06
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Thu 18 Nov - 7:17 | |
| Like I said: I'm not into taxonomy... When it comes to molecular data and DNA, you've beaten me.  @Jean: more then ok ! Start breeding them now... | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Thu 18 Nov - 17:09 | |
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Brian Petrie
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 239
Age : 72
Location : England
Points : 6135
Registration date : 2008-09-23
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Fri 19 Nov - 6:02 | |
| Hi Alexandru,
Thanks for posting that paper, that is the one I took my information from.
Cheers,
Brian. | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Wed 2 Mar - 1:28 | |
| Palaestinae are mated yesterday evening.........But i can't do some pics..... So, i have to wait.... | |
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Peter van Issem
Serpent Chief
Number of posts : 707
Age : 57
Location : GERMANY
Points : 6574
Registration date : 2009-03-08
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Wed 2 Mar - 1:49 | |
| Fingercrossing for your succes Jean-Henry! I´ve never breed this species. My ones mate and lay eggs several times... But without anny good result. Hope you get it! | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera palaestinae.... Wed 2 Mar - 2:04 | |
| We will see Peter......i finger cross also.... You remember when the female lay eggs after mating? | |
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