New clorechis feeding problems

Just looking for a bit of advice from people who've kept this species for longer than I have.

In August, I purchased 2.1 WC A. clorechis. The female is a pig (and aggressive as hell) but the 2 males never seem to want to eat. I gave them all panacur and flagyl and follow-up fecals show that they are parasite-free. The temperature is around 25 Celsius and they're heavily misted twice a week. The humidity usually stays quite high in their enclosures.

I want to avoid force feeding because I had to do that to give them the antiparasitic meds and I think it stressed them out. Even tease-feeding doesn't get them to strike. They don't seem to be losing too much weight so I want to take care of this before it gets too serious.

Any suggestions?

Hey Luke ! Congrats with the 'new' ones...
A long time ago I had a pair of Nitschei. I know, they're two different subspecies and maybe a poor comparison. However, I think maintenance will be much alike.
But I didn't mist a lot. In fact, I kept them rather dry !
Just a small clue since I read you're misting quite frequently... Won't solve the problem I guess...
But it's also remarkable that both males are giving you trouble ? What have you tried ? Live mice, defrost,... ?

Gr.,
Pascal.

Guest

You practically have to beat them with it sometimes. Get to gape and stick it in nose first. May drop it once or twice but it always works. Also they are a very lathargic ssp. So sometimes feeding in winter may be few and far between. I also agree with Pascal. They do like it on the dry side. Much like squamigera.

Hi Luke!
Try to feed them with smaller mice than usual. Take the mouse with a long tweezer. Push ist slight against the mouth. If it is not succsessful remove the head of the defrosted mouse and try again.
regards
Philipp

Just to answer Pascal's question on the techniques I've used: I've tried scenting with frogs/lizards, braining, tease-feeding, feeding live and nothing seems to work.

Timothy Sieber wrote:: You practically have to beat them with it sometimes. Get to gape and stick it in nose first.

Every time I try tease-feeding, the males just run away. I could probably stick my fingers in and poke them and they still wouldn't strike. I've already stressed them out with force-feeding medication, won't that stress them out even more?

Hi Luke,
Do you keep them together? Mine where lethargic, only on the ground and never moving around. But where eating after beating, like Timothy said. I kept them like my squam's, and alone. Look this thread here in Atheris, and you get the parameters exact:
"Breeding a squamigera in really good conditions ? "
Now i moved them to a warmer room. The temperatur from squam +3° day and night. 2 times mist per week, not heavy, and a waterbowl. Since then they're on top of the cage under the lamp at 28/30° longtime basking, but moving around.
Now i feed more carefuly, i learnt that they can be fast like a schlegeli.
But maybe yours are only horny;-)
Cheerio
Rene

I think that your humidity stays quite high is a sign for bad ventilation! In my opinion the humidity doesn't matter as long as they get enough to drink. It's important that they get some drops on their body and nose. The rest dry.
Did they poop in your care? My WC chlorechis had a hard congestion, thought shes in good condition but it was only a lot of poo.

Just my expirience

Thanks a lot guys. I'll try this and let you know how it goes. The next feeding attempt will be tomorrow.

Guest

When they try to run I just keep it in there face. Tap them from the side sometimes my girls will only side strike inleu of head on.

OK,

So I tried 'beating them over the head' with fuzzy mice. One of them ate right away (which is surprising to me because he's never eaten before when I tease-fed) and the other wouldn't even strike after 5 minutes of constant harrassment.

I'm confident that I could reach my hand in and poke him on the head with my fingers and he still wouldn't bite (not that I'd actually do such a thing). His weight and behaviour all seem normal, but it'sbeen about 5 weeks since he's eaten (and it was a force feed with Panacur).

Any thoughts?

Hi,

some points to add, maybe it works better:
really warm mice, baby rats...
keeping them separate, with the background that some of mine only ate when they were seperated again.
Touch the tail quite rough with the food.

Guest

Jonas is right sometimes you gotta be rough. Ibe spent two hours before tease feeding a baby. Sometimes it takes awhile. Just be persistant.

Guest

Maybe some pics. When your time permits.

Luke Halstead wrote:: OK,

So I tried 'beating them over the head' with fuzzy mice. One of them ate right away (which is surprising to me because he's never eaten before when I tease-fed) and the other wouldn't even strike after 5 minutes of constant harrassment.

I'm confident that I could reach my hand in and poke him on the head with my fingers and he still wouldn't bite (not that I'd actually do such a thing). His weight and behaviour all seem normal, but it'sbeen about 5 weeks since he's eaten (and it was a force feed with Panacur).

Any thoughts?

How did it go with your protégé?

It's going OK.

My male and female pair are eating well but my lone male is still having a hard time. LAst week I force fed him because he hadn't eaten in about 3 months and he was looking a little thin.

Everything's alive and well though.

Ok, hopes he make it. I'm babysitting a small pair of schlegelii's and the smaller one will not eat as it should. But yesterday I left the smallest pinkie I could find in front of it's nose and over night and this morning it was gone. What a relief.

Hi.

I got curious while reading... Do you keep them separate or together? Or did I miss the mention?

As noted above, if the other male is healthy, maybe he's in a breeding season mode?

Just for comparison, I have a pair of '07 CBB A. chlorechis, and they have always been the toughest Atheris to feed. Sure, whenever they're hungry and really want to eat, they strike at the sight of the prey. Other times, they go weeks on end without food. I've even started to offer less and less often. They were like this as babies too. Always healthy, though.
Can't remember the longest they've been without food.

The male eats even more seldom than the female, and it looks to me like some of my '09 A. squamigera are at the same size as my chlorechis. And this is to say the chlorechis are small in my opinion.

My pair drinks a heck of a lot more than my squamigera or nitschei, so I try to mist them more often. Sometimes they prefer to drink from the 'rain'. Naturally I have great ventilation, so I avoid keeping them wet for too long.

Christian,

I keep 2 of them (1.1) together and one (1.0) seperate. It's the seperate one that won't eat, but I do notice that both the males won't eat as much as the female.

I force-fed the 1.0 a couple of weeks ago because he was starting to look thin and unhealthy.

I also don't mist very often but I find that they do prefer to drink from a spray bottle rather than a water dish. I have no real concerns for the short term health of the lone male, but I am a bit worried about how he'll do in the long run.

Hi Luke
I have the same set up as you two males and a female chlorechis. This is how I keep mine and it seems to be working well so I hope this helps a bit. Firstly I place them in a large plastic tub once or twice a week and mist them very well. I leave them in the tub for an hour or two and then return them to their dry enclosure. The humidity in the enclosure is usually between 50 to 60% the temperatures range between 26 degrees daytime and down to 20 degrees sometimes even 18 degrees night time. My initial pair have done very well and never refused a meal. I offer smallish prey items once every 3-4 weeks. My newer male has been the problem feeder, although I believe he is in breeding mode as I caught him copulating with my female. I was also concerned about his condition and the only thing I could do to get him to feed was to take a pink mouse and get its head into his mouth by pinning him. As soon as the head was in his mouth he voluntarily swallowed the prey. Normally I would not advise this if you suspect the snake is refusing food because he is keen on breeding, but in this case I felt it was justified as he was beginning to lose condition. I hope this helps a bit. Good luck with your chlorechis !

Luke, I once had an adult male chlorechis that drove me nuts for the longest time because he wouldn't eat very frequently. I finally just learned to live with the fact that he was going to eat once every 2-3 months and that's just the way it was. After that realization, he and I got along just fine. Perhaps your lone male just needs some time to adjust to being in captivity and then his appetite will pick up. Try assist feeding instead of force feeding and see what he does; try just placing the fuzzy inside his mouth, tug it backwards just a touch so it snags on his teeth and he can't spit it easily, and then slowly back off and see if he'll swallow it on his own. If he does, then you're one step closer to him feeding on his own without the stress of force feeding. Good luck with him!

I had a trio of A. chlorechis, 2.1, and my experiences were identical to those related by others who have responded in this thread. All 3 were WC imports, and I kept the group in the late 1980's. The female took small, fresh killed mice with little provocation, while the two males were a challenge to feed. Best results were when dead fuzzies were offered at night. I used a red spotlight to illuminate the area, and I'd offer the fuzzies several hours after the regular lights went out, 2 am or so. Success was not guaranteed, and it took patience to induce the males to feed.

I did have success breeding this species on one occasion, and all neonates refused to feed on their own and were started by force feeding rodent parts, tail sections and thighs, before utilizing pinks.

The first photo shows one of the males, the second photo shows the female.

A challenging species to keep and breed, I enjoyed having them, and would recommend them to anyone interested in Atheris.

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