Various Atheris pics

Before my children were born I had a very large collection of Atheris here. Here are some of the snakes that I dearly miss. I will probably tinker with these species again sometime in the near future. My kids are just getting old enough where I am gearing my collection back up some, primarily with squamigera. I'm just showing off, so I hope you don't mind.....actually, I hope that you enjoy them.

Ceratophora:








Nitschei:







Desaixi:







Chlorechis:







Squamigera:

Wonderful pics Derek!! "drewling" I would pay alot for that black or purple one, been looking for them for some time now...
Show us more please!!

Amazing, all of them... I second Sonny here, the purple is a killer!

It really starts to tick me off to see pictures of red squamigera; for the life of me I can't find a red female for myself...

Just out of curiosity, is the first/third nitschei a female? And the second one a male?
Do you know/remember which country these originated from?

Thanks guys! I'll post some more show-offs soon. I have more photos than you care to see, I am sure.

*Note to self--he needs red female*

Actually, the middle nitschei was the female, Christian. I got them from Mike Stuhlman, but I don't remember where they originated. Sorry.

Derek Morgan wrote:

Thanks guys! I'll post some more show-offs soon. I have more photos than you care to see, I am sure.

*Note to self--he needs red female*

Actually, the middle nitschei was the female, Christian. I got them from Mike Stuhlman, but I don't remember where they originated. Sorry.

Yeah, a red female would be a valuable trading item

Oh, ok. I was mistaken about the sexes of the nitschei, sorry.

Thanks to this post I am now addicted to atheris , amazing! thanks

Hey Derek,

awesome pictures. Thank´s for sharing.

i am very happy, having you guys here... crazy about Atheris...
as i have not one Atheris sp. here till now, i am looking forward to your discussions about husbandry, biology etc.pp..

thanks for the beautiful snakes you share here with us Derek... just amazing how beautiful they are... cant understand, why they are not more common in collections... just wondering.. sometimes you read they are so difficult to take care off... i am curious if this statements always came from the "real experienced guys".. ??



cheers
Mario

Thanks for the kudos guys. I am happy that you share my enthusiasm for this group of wonderful animals. I have a ton more pics, so no worries there.

Hey Christian, I think that we may have bartering power with Mario for some Mcgregor's! Seriously, I admire your mcgregorii probably the same as you admire my squams, Mario. But squams are my trigger species and if that's the only species I could ever keep, I would live a very happy life. (But it would be happier if I had a pair of white and red tiger mcgregor's, LOL.)

And you ask a very pertinent question there, Mario. The short answer is that the Atheris from lower elevations are quite a bit easier to keep alive and breed with regularity in captivity. That is primarily squamigera and chlorechis. These are hardy snakes that are really very easy to keep alive if you know their basic needs and they are relatively easy to stimulate to breed. But even these species will not produce on a regular basis in captivity, like say B. schlegelii will. I always tore them up one year and then seemed to suck wind the next.

The species from higher elevations are another story: nitschei, ceratophora, and hispida. I think that ceratophora's secrets are being decoded as we sit here right now. A good friend (who will be joining the forum soon, I hope) is currently truly breeding these guys this year and he has kept them alive for good lengths of time in the past. I kept some animals alive for about three years before a virus killed the whole group. Others have bred fresh imports with no problems, as they seem to be very horny when they come in "off the boat" for some reason. This species has a history of doing well for nine months to a year in captivity and then rolling for no obvious reason. I would consider them to be an advanced species better tackled after squamigera and chlorechis are mastered.

Nitshei are similar to ceratophora and seem to live for a bit in captivity and then roll for the most part. I was not able to keep mine alive for any great length of time due to the same virus that got the ceratophora (more on that later). Christian has had better luck than I did and he has produced babies. I know others who treat this species like squamigera and they live long lives....but no babies are produced.

Hispida...sigh. A sad case right now, I am sorry to say. Everyone over here keeps trying their hand at them and they keep failing. I hear rumors of a couple of people who have had great success with them, but not much proof has been shown to back it up. I have never tried them and have no plans to. I am certain that some will land in my lap at some point and I will do my best with them, but I will seek other species before I seek hispida. They roll if you just look at them wrong apparently, even cb babies from the imports don't last more than a few weeks in captivity. We're doing something very wrong here with this species.

Oops, sorry for the rant! I didn't mean to go on for that long. My bad.

Oops, I forgot desaixi. I'd place them in the same category with ceratophora and nitschei. They're a more difficult species that some people have had decent luck with keeping alive, but they roll for most people after a few months.

thats not to long at all Derek, not at all - it is rather important to share this informations... thats why, we set up VenomLand to be able to talk to the right guys, and to share important informations...

i do believe if we fail in some point with some species, it is just our fault, we havnt found the right way.. it was with many species before the same, just think about Corallus canius ! how many have giving up on them already... and now, how successful became others...

regarding your point in; some snakes seem to be more keen to breed after they have been shipped... i can second that, i think, it might be the darkness and the cold temperature, then, after arrival we put them in well temperate enclosure, humidity fits and so on... sure, they became "horny"!

when i told peter in austria to cool the mcgregori down to 10°C for two weeks and this on a humid level of 90% +, he told me i am nuts, and tough i was kidding with him.. i always try to spend as much time as i can in the natural habitat of the species i intent to breed... you find out quite interesting things who enable you to become finally successful...



cheers
Mario

Wow, 10C would scare the heck out of me, too, especially with very rare and very expensive pitvipers! I almost had a heart attack the first time I put my ceratophora and desaixi in my basement at 12-13C, and I did that for three months! When I turned off their heat bulbs, I think I said the biggest prayer I had ever said in my life, lol!

Ahhh, that is very interesting about the reasoning behind the snakes breeding as soon as they come out of the crates. That makes good sense!

Also, here's my take on perhaps having success with the more difficult species sooner: spread the animals out and let more people keep them. Everyone will keep the animals slightly (or sometimes even radically) different and there's a better chance of someone getting it right. For instance, the guy over here who had the two WC hispida females drop babies last year could have spread those babies out with some good friends who had experience with Atheris and I think they would have had a better chance. Instead, he kept them all the same way and they all died. Well, we now know that what he did didn't work, but that's it...we didn't learn a whole lot there.

Oh, and I would KILL to visit the homeland of my beloved Atheris. You are very right to spend as much time as possible in the home range, Mario. I have a co-worker who moved to Tanzania and I think he thought I was joking when I told him to either catch snakes for me or I would come to visit him to catch snakes. He stopped returning my email! I believe that he thinks I'm crazy. Oh well, maybe I'll have to go visit with Andrew Hacket one day!

Derek , no problem to visit , my hotel charges one Atheris per evening including a very generous breakfast !!

Ceratophora are available in South Africa now on a website , but the person did not spell the name correctly that worries me , lots of bad people around. I am getting fotos of this animals tomorow if they are looking good I will buy them. Will post the pictures they are 380 euros for 1.2 trio.

Can we sex these animals from pictures?

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew Hacket wrote:

Can we sex these animals from pictures?

If you get a picture with all 3 Cratophora and the snakes adult, it is no problem to sex, it is easy to see - females are much bigger!

In the past I keep 7,7 Atheris ceratophora for more than 5 years. After a paramyxo in 2003 I lost my complete group...
3 females are pregnant if she dying...


https://fotoalbum.web.de/gast/mb-bonedaddy/Atheris_ceratophora

The big black/yellow female was 84 cm long and 268 g... It was a dream...


And I`m also a A. squamigera fan

https://fotoalbum.web.de/gast/mb-bonedaddy/Atheris_squamigera

Today I have a little bit more squamigera as in the album, I have to make some new pictures...

With the shiny red on the pictures coms the paramyxo...

Regards
Michael

Hi,

Iwould also like to share my former squamingera-group with you:



Here the big yellow girl ...



And the nice red male ...



It was very hard that I have lost my yellow female after a perfect pregnancyand a huge clutch of 13(!) dead babies, 3 not developed eggs and 2 living babies (in total 17). It could be that such a big clutch took to much power out of such a small body ...
See the sad site of our hobby here (all dead babies (except the small one) had a length of ~ 17-18 cm)


Now I only have a single green one.
The two babies are still with a friend of mine, but I hope that these two will be strong enough to get such beautys as the mother was.

Regards
Marc

HEY, now we're talking guys! I love all of the photos! Keep them coming!

Good luck with the ceratophora Andrew! They are fun and are very feisty. Yes, female adults are larger and more robust than male adults, but the ones that have been coming in here recently have all been small subadults and it is very hard to tell the sex.

Michael, great photos, thank you for sharing! I would love to hear more about your experiences with ceratophora when you have time. You had some very nice animals there and I'm sorry that you lost them to the virus. My virus got my cerats, desaixi, nitschei, and some of my squams, but it wasn't paramyxovirus. I plan to work with this species again in the near future, so any free advice would be nice. I love the jungle phase, too.

Great photos, Marc! I'm sorry that the litter didn't work out for you. Here's hope and luck for the future broods. Unfortunately, I've had some litters over the years that turned out like yours. I'll start a thread on baby pics at some point and show off some pics of the litters.

I have a question for you guys. Over here we tend to keep all animals caged individually unless they are breeding. Most serious breeders use a rack system and then introduce their pairs into larger cages during breeding season. But I see many pics where you guys have community cages with large groups of animals together. How do you avoid feeding problems and problem of aggression or even cannibalism? Please don't take me the wrong way--I am not being critical here--your tanks are beautiful and elaborately designed and I am jealous. I had a male squam kill a female a few weeks ago after introduction and I have had that happen in the past, as well. Usually the females have the aggression problems, however. So I am curious if you just accept the problems and deal with them, or what you do. Thanks in advance for any replies.

Have a great day everyone and thanks for the chat! Btw, I posted more photos on the other thread.

I would like to share a couple of my Atheris too... No rare colors but i love them any way!!

Ceratophora


"Mama squam"


"Baby squam"

Those pastel colored specimens are amazing ''mama squam'' that is......

UPDATE:

Anyway so I ask the seller please to send me 3 nice pictures of the exact specimens 1.2 available for purchase ''the ceratophora I discussed earlier''
So this is what he sends me ..



1 small picture of only 1 snake , is this man on drugs?
Hopefully I must get better pictures..

Thats the problem! That might be the only one that looks ok! The rest might be half dead!
I would only pay money for these if I saw them for myself as I know of many brought(smuggled?) into SA and more than 90% died!! Especially the males!!
Cheers
Gavin

Thank-you to malcolm 'the seller' for sending better pictures , much appreciated ...Gavin , Yes that is good advice 90% is a lot of waste, I would like to track all the sold animals and keep record of how they are doing
I am hoping the seller will also take part in this idea. Interesting to see how many survive and how the different keepers
cared for the animals. I will invite the seller to join the forum , maybe we can discuss with him...

Hey Andrew, do I get one night's free stay at your place if I properly guess the sexes of those cerats? They look nice and the second two should lighten up in color when they shed like the first one has done.

Nice photos, Sonny! Thanks for sharing.

Andrew Hacket wrote:

Thank-you to malcolm 'the seller' for sending better pictures , much appreciated ...Gavin , Yes that is good advice 90% is a lot of waste, I would like to track all the sold animals and keep record of how they are doing
I am hoping the seller will also take part in this idea. Interesting to see how many survive and how the different keepers
cared for the animals. I will invite the seller to join the forum , maybe we can discuss with him...

this idea of yours is awesome Andrew...
if you could get informations together, we might be able to find out why such lot of snakes dying.

ill guess, the transportation wasnt that good and the animals are dehydrated and already out of their balance..
anyway, thats a great idea andrew - also, sure invite Malcolm here, will see if we can gather informations in order to make sure the next ones, arriving SA will be surviving...



cheers
Mario

hey derek,
i keep my sguamigers adults always together, they are not agresive to each other.
you just have to make sure that they are not to close to another one when you feed them.
normaly the dont hunt after the mouse but just wait and grab them when the mouse passes by.
breeding them is also very easy but they should be cooled down in the winter. i keep my squamigers
at a 15-17c in the winter.

for a year ago i give a 1.1 squamigera to friend of mine. these where offspring from august 2006
he had four young snakes from them last month.


best regards
kai van enckevort

Hey Andrew, that first snake looks like it has mites! Look at the white specs on it!
I would be very reluctant to buy those! They look fat enough but you must ask him how long he has them and I doubt it will be more than a few weeks at the most! I am not trying to put you off just be careful thats all.
Cheers
Gavin

Hi Kai

I have had a female strip the last 2 inches of skin off a male's tail and kill him. She later tried to kill another male, but he escaped. I had another female bite a male full on the head and he died. I had a male bite a female somewhere along her body and it fully paralyzed her for months, she is slowly recovering still. A buddy of mine had three of my squams last year and a female killed the male. And I had the male kill the female this year. That's a lot of aggression! So I am very careful with introductions and housing them together too long. Most of my pairs get a long just fine, but others do not.

I agree. You can either cool or warm the squams during the off season and then rain on them and change the temps and it stimulates them to breed. Sometimes I make a hot, dry "summer" prior to breeding season and that works rather well. I think the change in temps, humidity, and barometric pressure are the stimulants.

Derek