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Dear Venomland Members and Friends, Venomland is a little more than 6 years old now and by far the biggest Hot Snake community on the Planet! We want to thank all of you who made Venomland the leading Board. We are also very thankful to our Moderators and Admins for years of hard work. Now, it is time to move on. I have been thinking how to proceed and what to do with our beloved board as we reach a size, that we need to make drastic changes to secure the future of our community. As of now, Venomland is hosted by a free (well mostly free) hosting service. That was good for the first years but now we need to find a new way to run our forum. I have spend hundreds of Dollars over the years to keep Venomland up and running, and i have done so with pleasure. Now, we need your help! We need to come up with several thousand dollars for our Venomland 2.0 project, which i frankly cant pay for any longer by myself. So Venomland is asking his Friends and Members for the first time for their financial Support. Please help to keep Venomland alive, and let us move on to a new, better Portal in the Future! Every Dollar is helping us a great deal. I know, its hard times for everyone, but please spare a few Dollar for our community. If you have only 10 Dollars to spare, we are grateful, if it is more, it would be awesome. We are planning to develop a very new Venomland, with real community functions, a forum like you are already loving it and a real (online) Hot Snake Magazin. Also, there will be download areas for scientific papers, Wallpapers and more. Again folks, we can only do that if you all help. Please send me a Private Message if you want to keep Venomland alive, i will provide you with the details on how to donate Money. For now, we can accept money from creditcards via skrill (please google it, its a free service - account-details will be forwarded to you) and paypal. All the best, and for a (hopefully) nice future of our Board. Mario

 

 Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei

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Totte Meilstrup
Jim Keenan
6 posters
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Jim Keenan
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Jim Keenan


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Number of posts : 35
Age : 60
Location : Florida, U.S.A.
Points : 6081
Registration date : 2008-04-12

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PostSubject: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeThu 22 May - 10:39

A new addition.....

Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei 2512880852_0893ae2197_o

Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei 2512052253_c5d3a7402d_o
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http://www.homegrownherps.com
Totte Meilstrup
Snakekeeper
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Totte Meilstrup


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Number of posts : 61
Age : 43
Location : Sweden
Points : 6075
Registration date : 2008-04-14

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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeThu 22 May - 16:50

Stunning animal Jim.

Good luck with him/her

regards
Totte
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Mario Lutz
Lord of the Serpents
Lord of the Serpents
Mario Lutz


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Number of posts : 1416
Age : 56
Location : Puerto Galera, Philippines
Points : 8393
Registration date : 2008-03-06

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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeThu 22 May - 17:00

yes jim - beautiful...
did you have more of them?

kept them before etc.?




cheers
Mario
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Jim Keenan
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Jim Keenan


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Number of posts : 35
Age : 60
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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeThu 22 May - 21:37

She is the only one I have at this time , and I have never kept them before either ...any tips on keeping then would be appreciated !
She was a W/C import , and she has taken a meal already ( mouse ). I will try to get a photo of the enclosure posted to day.
( pretty here ...babies hatching EVERY day )
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Mario Lutz
Lord of the Serpents
Lord of the Serpents
Mario Lutz


Male
Number of posts : 1416
Age : 56
Location : Puerto Galera, Philippines
Points : 8393
Registration date : 2008-03-06

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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeThu 22 May - 22:33

congrats on your babies Jim... more power to you! i think Derek is very much the right person you can expect some professional answers.. meanwhile, ill wish you all the best and cross my fingers!


cheers
Mario
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Jim Keenan
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Jim Keenan


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Number of posts : 35
Age : 60
Location : Florida, U.S.A.
Points : 6081
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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeSun 25 May - 8:12

Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei 2518995501_eef0f3e60a_o

Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei 2519814024_1371da9431_o

Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei 2518995707_430f0ac8d5_o
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Guenter Leitenbauer
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Guenter Leitenbauer


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Number of posts : 1389
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Points : 7328
Registration date : 2008-05-17

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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeSun 25 May - 20:55

Fine shots, but the first shot in Your last post is of exceptional quality - congratulations to the photographer!
Cheers,
Guenter
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Derek Morgan
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Derek Morgan


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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeThu 29 May - 7:45

Nice photos, Jim. I kept these guys a few years ago, but I don't have any currently. Christian has some currently and has even bred them, so perhaps he will share some secrets when he has time to. I kept mine just a bit cooler than I did my squamigera, say maybe 75F during the day with a 5-7 degree drop at night. I used basic arboreal setups, and yours look great. I misted 2-3 times a week and let them dry out in between. One thing I learned from them is that they sometimes like to strike and release like they're not going to feed, but they will come back to it later to feed. Christian witnessed the same observation, of which I have seen rarely to never with other species of Atheris. Anyway, I think these are the basic conditions to keep them alive, but they historically do not live long in some collections. I think that they may need more cycling and cooler temperatures to keep them going for longer periods and to stimulate them to breed. I would recommend looking up weather data for their locality (or close to it if you don't know the exact locale) and following it closely. Here's a good site to search for weather data, if you don't already know it: http://weather.noaa.gov/international.html. Good luck, and have fun with them! They're a great species.
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Christian Moisander
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Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6350
Registration date : 2008-04-27

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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeThu 29 May - 21:26

Nice photos indeed. And a truly nice species.

I wanted to wait a bit to have Derek answer first, as he's been my main man in Atheris-related questions and he provided me with helpful comments and information when I got my first nitschei and stressed about setting them up as good as possible. I didn't want to write stuff about the topic like I'd figured things out all on my own. Thanks again Derek, for all the advise & help.
Can't add much to what he said, but I can share some observations and info on how mine are set up etc.

I keep mine pretty much the way Derek described above, similar to the way I keep squamigera.
I too have many a times seen this species being referred to as one of the higher altitude species. However, in the book True Vipers (Mallow/Ludwig/Nilsson) there is a comment that goes roughly like this: "nitschei can be found up to 1600 meters and above"...

I currently have 1.2 adults and 4 roughly year-olds, three of which were born to the older female some time after arrival. All of mine are from Kasese, Uganda, but I have no idea of the altitude or more precise location where they were collected from.
I have kept them for a little over a year now, and so far, so good.
I have also read reports that even acclimated specimens may suddenly drop dead even after a year or so. So I'm just going a day at a time, hoping and praying that these awesome snakes would settle, long-term.

I kept the adults in a terrarium measuring 60 x 70 x 80 (height) cm. There's a 25W spotlight to provide a basking spot and I have unfertilized soil as substrate. There's medium sized water dish, lots of branches and loads of fake vines to provide cover.
Mine have been rather nervous from the start, so I think stress-free envinronment is big plus. Mine aren't prone to striking, but even after a year, they may dash away when I offer food or spray them. Sometimes dropping to the ground really fast.
I spray them about 2-3 times per week.

Daytime temps vary, depending on the season & room temp. Mostly in the above-mentioned terrarium the daytime temps range from 23C to 28C (that's about 73 to 82, American Laughing ). At the basking spot the temp is around 30C (86F). Night-time drop is roughly several degrees.
In the winter the air is drier and cooler, so the seasons are provided kinda naturally.
Last winter I think the lowest temps were around 20C (68F).
Sorry for not having a better memory or notes...

In July '07 I witnessed the male copulating with the younger female and I couldn't believe my eyes! That was one of the greates experiences ever, even if I don't get babies, as I thought that I may be doing something right after all.
The male is horny as hell, he's been trying to copulate with the female from time to time until the early months of '08, at that time the female didn't approve his attempts. Never witnessed any aggression, though. So, between July '07 and early '08 there has been several long copulations - some lasting for hours - which I've been lucky enough to witness.
I was thinking that eliminating as much stress from the female as possible should help, and so I removed the male (at this point the older female had been in a smaller terrarium for some time, and has been doing well). So the hopefully, and seemingly, gravid female now has the big terrarium all to her self Very Happy
The male & the older female will share a smaller terrarium at least until I see if the younger female was gravid or not.

The male has, again from time to time, tried to mate with the older female, but as far as I know, she has turned him down every time.

I do realise that there may be some crap on the way, or perhaps, if the conditions haven't been right etc. there won't be any live babies, if babies at all, but there is a bit of hope in me nonetheless.

The older female is a terrible feeder. It took me a long time to realise what is the best way to have her feed, if she's up for it. I leave f/t small to medium mouse on the branches - which she she may eat, sometimes without me even inducing a strike from her! What could be a more natural way for a WC specimen Laughing
The male, on the other hand, has a ravenous appetite, and on occasion he has taken food that was meant for other occupants in the terrarium. I have to control his food intake.
The younger female eats more 'normally'. I have done the same thing with her as I've done with potentially gravid squamigera; I offer very small mouse almost weekly, to ensure that she would have enough energy to produce healthy offspring. I don't actually prepare a female for a mating season in advance by feeding more.
Recently, she has been steadily turning my offers down...

The yearlings are doing fine at the moment, housed singly and growing.
Possibly in the future, as space etc. permits, I will consider housing the adults singly as well. The large terrarium seems to be sizeable enough to house at least a pair. Since this male seems very active in chasing girls, I guess it's a good idea to try and not to burn out the female/s.

Well, there are some unedited ramblings on the topic, wonder if anyone makes any sense out of it.
If there's anyone else in this forum who keeps this species and has kept long-term, it would be nice to hear your experiences as well. I'd really like to know if there are people who have bred this species, possibly on a regular basis.

In closing, here's a recent shot of my adult male:
Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei P1050367
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Derek Morgan
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Derek Morgan


Male
Number of posts : 410
Age : 53
Location : North Carolina, USA
Points : 6266
Registration date : 2008-05-13

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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeFri 30 May - 10:19

Awesome Christian! Thank you so much for taking the time to type all of that up! Your intuition with caring for this species is paying off greatly and I wish you more and more success.
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Christian Moisander
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6350
Registration date : 2008-04-27

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PostSubject: Re: Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei   Sedge Viper - Atheris nitschei Icon_minitimeTue 3 Jun - 2:11

Thank you, thank you very much for the kind words. I really appreciate that.

Hopefully I'm onto something keeping them this way, I'd be really happy if the adults would survive another year without complications. I would breathe a little bit easier then.
To have the one-year mark behind me with these individuals is a very big deal for me as it is. 1.1 were young adults upon arrival, so if their life-span is anything close to that of squamigeras, I believe they should have some years ahead of them if the conditions meet their demands close enough and nothing bad happens.
I'd be happy to keep anyone interested informed on this forum on how things progress, whatever happens.

I'll start a new thread then, so that Mr. Keenan won't think his thread was hj'd. BTW, your [Keenan] specimen is really beautiful.
Do you know where she was collected from? I hope that you get to keep her for a long time, and hopefully you'll find a mate for her as well.
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