| | Vipera ammodytes male 2011 |  |
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+6Nigel Sowter Rainer Fesser Udo Schutte Daniel Claesson Ro vd Bergh David Guerra 10 posters |
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pierre-yves vaucher
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49
Age : 68
Location : Geneva, Switzerland
Points : 5553
Registration date : 2009-11-11
| Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011  Mon 8 Aug - 2:53 | |
| 1 = female, 2 = male, 3 = female.... otherwise three are trans !!!! | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
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pierre-yves vaucher
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49
Age : 68
Location : Geneva, Switzerland
Points : 5553
Registration date : 2009-11-11
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Mon 8 Aug - 3:07 | |
| j'en sais rien... par contre, David, tu vas faire quoi de la repro ??? Il y en a pléthore sur le marché....
I don't know ... David, what you gonna do the repro?? There are a plethora on the market .... | |
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Tiberiu Sahlean
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 73
Age : 40
Location : Bucharest
Points : 5477
Registration date : 2010-03-03
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Mon 8 Aug - 3:26 | |
| If this is number 3 it means I was wrong, as no. 3 looks female from the tail. Light color for a female and very contrated to the overall background. Is the picture taken using flash? | |
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
Number of posts : 565
Age : 74
Location : Austria
Points : 6698
Registration date : 2008-03-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Mon 8 Aug - 19:11 | |
| 1. female
2. male
3. female, holding it in my hands and looking at it from different sides would bring more certainty.
Judging from shape I am sure about 1 and 2, almost sure about 3, counting SC´s, I´m sure about all 3, SC-numbers are typical for female / male V. a. ammod. from that area..
Rainer
Last edited by Rainer Fesser on Tue 9 Aug - 1:35; edited 1 time in total | |
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Grégoire Meier
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 136
Age : 48
Location : Ticino, Suisse
Points : 5974
Registration date : 2008-11-27
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Mon 8 Aug - 21:46 | |
| This is another picture, the limit of acceptance, but perhaps it helps with perspective a bit 'different  So to speak and remove doubts, perhaps the photo of the mother helps to understand the color of the little that puts so many doubts. Photos of my group of females. The mother is gray with brown desig, rolled up with female Orange.  The mother before giving birth  My english is very bad!!!  | |
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
Number of posts : 565
Age : 74
Location : Austria
Points : 6698
Registration date : 2008-03-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 1:44 | |
| Hello Gregoire,
the son of that grey female is beautiful and his pattern is very unusual but possible for Lake Skutari-Ammodytes. That was the reason why I asked David whether he was sure about the location, not doubt about your animals.
The photo of the tail in your last post brings last clearness about the gender - female.
You don´t have to apologize about your English, I think.
Cheers,
Rainer | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 4:24 | |
| So: So sorry Greg !  Yes, this adult female is very uncomon ! A beautifull one as well ! Sorry for the doubt ! Nice evening my friend ! | |
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pierre-yves vaucher
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49
Age : 68
Location : Geneva, Switzerland
Points : 5553
Registration date : 2009-11-11
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 5:57 | |
| and this little one, with contrasted pattern, without on the head, from central Croatia, male or female ?  | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 5:58 | |
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pierre-yves vaucher
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49
Age : 68
Location : Geneva, Switzerland
Points : 5553
Registration date : 2009-11-11
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 6:22 | |
| Are you sure ? pu...rée j'ai tjs des doutes....
You can follow others pics on:
http://www.venomland.net/t4497-croatia-may-2010-may-2011 | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 6:28 | |
| oué, mais là, les liens sont trop vagues...tu as pas un lien direct?
Do you have a direct link of this specimen? | |
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pierre-yves vaucher
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 49
Age : 68
Location : Geneva, Switzerland
Points : 5553
Registration date : 2009-11-11
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 6:37 | |
| c'est le lien direct sur mon trip report, tu as 2 clics à faire, rien de vague, que du précis. | |
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Grégoire Meier
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 136
Age : 48
Location : Ticino, Suisse
Points : 5974
Registration date : 2008-11-27
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 15:39 | |
| Ok, no problem! I'm just surprised that a connoisseur of vipers can give a categorical opinion only with a photo. Thank you for the clarification!  | |
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
Number of posts : 565
Age : 74
Location : Austria
Points : 6698
Registration date : 2008-03-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Tue 9 Aug - 21:41 | |
| We might play this game - male-female forever with photos showing an animal without its tail or even showing the tail from a view that doesn´t show the difference clearly, especially in juveniles. There are a number of males looking like females and vice versa. The photo shows an adult V.a.ammodytes from South-Central Croatia, cb, 6 years old, 85 cm. long, that I would have called a male at first glance though I have seen more than 1000 V.a.a. (wc. and cb.) from that location. I wasn´t sure about her sex until I checked her tail after she was born and checked it again and again later because it was hard to believe it´s not a male. SHE had babies several times up to now, none of them looking like she does. The photo was taken when she was gravid.  Gregoire: My doubt was NOT directed towards you, I did not know where the animal came from and there are people around that sell hybrids as animals from a special location because they would not be able to sell them if they would say what these animals really are. Cheers, Rainer | |
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jean-henri pastore
Snakemaster
Number of posts : 340
Age : 49
Location : France
Points : 5945
Registration date : 2009-11-13
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Wed 10 Aug - 4:12 | |
| Gregoire's words are not for you Rainer, they are for me , and i assume ! Doubt, right or wrong can be sometimes, also with lot of experiences !  | |
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David Guerra
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 103
Age : 34
Location : Switzerland
Points : 5178
Registration date : 2011-02-18
| | Subject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011 Sat 13 Aug - 21:56 | |
| wow! a lot of answer! thanks all and thanks to Gregoire Meier for the pics and precisions. I like the discussions like this with pics, explicaton and differents opinions... good luck at all David | |
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