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Nice...

Hello Mateusz,
a nice looking snake, did you have some more informations about it? The coloration of the tail looks a little bit starnge to me, it will be nice to know from wich locations he is from!

thanks,

Peter

Hello Peter and thanks !

I don't know from which locations he is from, I don't have contacts with last previous keeper, but probably in wietnam, and he is CB04.

Hi,
I´m a little bit suprised, than for me it looks like a typical Trimeresurus albolabris. Because of the Tail, your snake displays a typical Tail coloration for the ,,albolabris Group´´ a compl. brown Stripe, not like a typical ,,stejnegeri´´ type: spotted and not so clear. Also the Head looks to me like a member of the albolabris group. Thats what makes me so feed so...
Mising the red stripe can be possible.. I don´t know and why not.
If you intrested, I will add a picture from a typical male Tail from a Tam Dao, Vietnam Male.?

Ok, send my if you want, here? I buy him as Viridovipera stejnegeri stejnegeri, and when I watch any other picsture on this species he looks very similar.

Ok Mateusz,
here are two Pictures from my Male V. stejnegeri. The is the Local Variant from Tam Dao, Vietnam.

Sorry, Deleted V_stej10

maby you can compare it with yours, look with attention to the Nasalia, it must be divided! Typical sign for the Members of the Viridovipera and Popeia Group.
Not Divided, or only a little bit in the Group of albolabris (albolabris, insularis, septentrionalis)

indeed, he very different. But looks at this topic :

http://www.venomland.net/t557-viridovipera-stejnegeri

or this :

http://www.reptarium.cz/en/taxonomy/Viridovipera-stejnegeri/photogallery/26008

Yes, the ones on the two links looks like and will be for sure stejnegeri! Typical coloration!
Un fortunely we can´t see the tails. But here are also the Nasalia divided.
Please make a close up head shot of your one, maby we can see more on details...

It is either C.albolabris or hybrid.

More pictures :

Tail :

Sorry, Deleted 1003365y

close up head :

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I could not make better pictures because he was very angry ;p

Hello Mateusz, thank you for the additional pictures! Now it looks better to be.

Yes, thats a real albolabris. I think, someone has sell you a albolabris as a stejnegeri.
I´m not suprised about this, beause, here in a german classified board I´ve seen some months ago a classified who offered a man CB´s of ,,V. stejnegeri from Viet Nam´´ I was intresed in this and mail to him, pleased him to send me pictures from the parents and the offsprings. I got a lot of pictures from the youngsters not from the parents. And, what do you think was to see on this pictures? Realy nice smal albolabris offsprings! So you are not the only...that got the wrong snakes I think...
The copper colored eyes from your one are very often seen in the albolabris group.
In Thailand you can find a ,,cf. albolabris ´´ Population that has cherry red eyes... typical sign for stejnegeri and some popeiorum Pop. and yes of corse, T. rubeus. But the tail says all. The pattern of the brown coloration will be 100% a member of the albolabris group. Sorry.
But, it looks realy nice to me! I like albolabris of corse, so be not disapointed. Maby the price wasn´t the right?

When you will have a view on the Nasalia Scale, you will see, that this is not real divided. In stejnegeri it MUST be divided. Sometimes you will find albolabris, that looks a little bit like there Nasalia is divided, but it isn´t real, it is not more than only a deep skratsh. The picture you posted are with 100kb not big enought to maximise them on my PC. I have try it in PS to make it visible, but it don´t work with this smal files

Peter you have a lot of knowledge about these kind of snakes. It's very nice to read your posts:)

Wojciech Kuklewicz wrote:: Peter you have a lot of knowledge about these kind of snakes. It's very nice to read your posts:)

Thanks a lot!

But I have not much as want, I´m still learning! But, T. albolabris was one of my first venomous snakes at all! And, when I see one, I know them well.
So, in the Past I´ve keep at lot of them, and I have the possiblity to visit a good friend of mine, who works since more than 20 years with this kind of snakes too.
That helps a lot!
The years before I ,,work´´ more with the genuses: Vipera, Macrovipera and Montivipera and some others also...

Mr Mateusz Zieliński and Mr Peter thank you very much for this information and the pictures, the detailed information about the differences between this groups is always interesting.
by the way any other detail to look for when comparing this very similar group??

thanks in advance

regards

Hello Gustav,
the coloration of the albolabris like tails you will find also in macrops and rubeus. And this two, have also an undivided Nasalia. The blotched tail is not a typical sign only for stejnegeri, so you will find it in other species like gumprechti, fucata, buniana, medoensis and and and. Only the combination of this characters will bring a good result.
But, there is much trubble to determinate some species only by morphology.
I got a couple of Viridovipera from Vietnam, the comes from Sa Pa. I bought them as V. stejnegeri. Ok - but all samples thes are checkt by microbiologist shows, that in this area are only gumprecht is distributed! And gumprechti from Thailand looks differend to the ones from Vietnam... Thats is what I mean - it isn´t allwas so easy like to seperate albolabris from stejnegeri. This two are very differend snakes.
Have a look on the females from gumprecht, stejnegeri and popeiorum. When you don´t know where the are from, I´m sure you have a serious problem to find out what it is.
The best source to check out a lot of the Members of the asian pitvipers will be the book :

Asian Pitvipers, GUMPRECHT et al. 2004

but I think, you must have big luck to get one of this, because, the are sold out since some years. And when you google this book, you will see, it is offered on high price level. I´m happy to have a copy.

Thanks Peter, so this is C. albolabris? Or Maybe this is hybrid?
I don't have contacts whitch last previous keeper.

Hi, I'm sure it isn't a hybrid. BecAuse the Hemipenes of the two genus are different!
I' m sure it is a Trimeresurus albolabris . You See I use the Terminus Trimeresurus , the ,,Old''
Genus name , there was a work about the Type specimen (Name giving )
And follo this work the Old will be the right Genus Name.
So Cryptelytrops will be Not longer the name for this Genus.
When I' m at home again I will Post a picture from an albolabris Male from me, to compare them with yours!

Hi, Thanks Peter !

Then I'm must buy adult female Trimeresurus albolabris for him. Wink

But... where I found T. albolabris like this? I mean cherry red eyes and so on.. ??

Hi Mateusz,
I think it will not a problem to find a female for him, but when your information is right, that it comes from Vietnam...(maby this was correct given to you!) then you have to look out for Vietnam albolabris. Unfortunely we can not see, from wich location he comes. Thats nearly impossible! I will make some pictures from my albolabris a little bit later. My are from west-Java, Indonesia and the male has also Copper colored eyes, this you will found all over the distribution of this snake species. Its not known only from one spot!
And, when you want to see a real ,,T. albolabris´´ then use google and fill in ,, red eyed albolabris´´ you will found a picture from Michale Cota, I sugest this snake was photographed in thailand, but in Laos you can also find this form. They has real ,,cherry red´´ eyes.

Ok, here we are:

Sorry, Deleted Head_t10

Head shot of T. albolabris from West Java, Indonesia

Sorry, Deleted Tail_t10

Tail from the same like above (T. albolabris)

Sorry, Deleted T_card10

1,0 CB 2011 T. cardamomensis, Thailand (very similar to T. macrops) note the tail!

Sorry, Deleted Tinsul10

1,0 CB 2010 T. insularis Wetar, Indonesia

Great snakes and now I see. from which locations is from T. albolabris in first photo? West Java, Indonesia ? Is very bright.

Yes Mateusz, it´s the Java form on the first and the 2nd pic. but on the 2nd it is an other speciemen, the other was to agressiv to make tail shots of them!
But not all looks like that! The difers also... not a 100% fix coloration.

Maby when you have to contact adress of the former keeper/breeder of your albolabris, and he can manage it that you will get an aditional female for yours!? Best from the same source.

Yes, I now. But I don't have contact whitch him ;( I must search. Maybe who have specimen like my.

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