| | Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen |  |
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+5Peter Zürcher Trey Keyes Jon Davidson Mario Lutz Christoph Studer 9 posters |
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Christoph Studer
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 80
Age : 49
Location : Switzerland
Points : 5775
Registration date : 2009-01-16
| Subject: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen  Thu 26 Mar - 4:34 | |
| Hello Guys Not a amazing spectacular Species, but i am never tired of this Animals:     all the Best Christoph | |
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Mario Lutz
Lord of the Serpents
Number of posts : 1416
Age : 56
Location : Puerto Galera, Philippines
Points : 8246
Registration date : 2008-03-06
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Thu 26 Mar - 9:14 | |
| I love them too Christoph..
this species should not be missed in any collection, by the way, i even find them "handsome"..
cheers
M. | |
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Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Thu 26 Mar - 23:26 | |
| hi Christoph! As you see, we're at last three who would love to see them more over here!  The one I got from you mated for two weeks...!! Cheers LucasC. |
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Jon Davidson
Serpent Chief
Number of posts : 512
Age : 68
Location : Toronto area, Canada
Points : 6176
Registration date : 2009-02-28
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Fri 27 Mar - 1:52 | |
| - Christoph Studer wrote:
'Not a amazing spectacular Species...' What!!?? Just kidding, Mr. Studer. I too enjoy Agkistrodon very much and I happen to have just been given two tiny live neonatal Agkistrodon contortrix x mokasen. I've just got them set up and feeding the last few days. My friend has taken a series of photographs of the little beasts that hopefully, I can post here on the site in the near future. I don't mean to 'highjack' your Thread, Mr. Studer; but perhaps we can get an active Agkistrodon Forum going here soon... Thanks for posting the photographs of your specimens(very nice, indeed). Sincerely, Jon Davidson . | |
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Christoph Studer
Snakekeeper
Number of posts : 80
Age : 49
Location : Switzerland
Points : 5775
Registration date : 2009-01-16
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Sun 29 Mar - 18:03 | |
| Lol your comments are allways welcome mr . davidson. @ mario and lucas: of course If these were really rare, everybody would want them. The colors are amazing on these animals. I think we have a little fan club here from the contortrix family All the best Christoph | |
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Trey Keyes
Newbie
Number of posts : 28
Age : 34
Location : USA
Points : 4559
Registration date : 2012-02-16
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Fri 26 Oct - 6:20 | |
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Peter Zürcher
Admin
Number of posts : 1266
Age : 72
Location : Carinthia, Austria
Points : 8175
Registration date : 2008-03-06
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Fri 26 Oct - 17:29 | |
| - Quote :
- That is not mokasen
okay - but for what reasons? I`m sure some members would appreciate it to read a little bit more than "not". regards Peter | |
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Markus Oulehla
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 156
Age : 34
Location : Austria
Points : 6150
Registration date : 2008-03-09
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Fri 26 Oct - 18:06 | |
| As I really like copperheads, especially A.c. mokasen and A.c. pictigaster, I want to add some pictures of Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen too... (pictures taken at Reptilienzoo Nockalm) in their enclosure...  and some pictures from an outdoor shooting in the sun, trying to capture their real (beautiful) coloration...    regards Markus | |
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Peter Zürcher
Admin
Number of posts : 1266
Age : 72
Location : Carinthia, Austria
Points : 8175
Registration date : 2008-03-06
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Fri 26 Oct - 18:14 | |
| stunning pictures, Markus, thank you!
Slowly, but sure you're outrunning me as a photographer....
now let's see what the experts will say...at least they look like i would expect mokasen to look.
Along with pictigaster the most beautiful subspecies in my opinion - i love them.
regards
Peter | |
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Franz Schönen
Snakecharmer
Number of posts : 101
Age : 60
Location : Dortmund
Points : 4352
Registration date : 2012-08-20
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Sun 28 Oct - 1:48 | |
| Hi Markus ; Gorgeous beauties your photos, what features and what a beautiful animal !  | |
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Gustav Eloy
Serpent Chief
Number of posts : 662
Age : 37
Location : Aguascalientes, Mexico
Points : 5775
Registration date : 2010-09-09
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Sun 28 Oct - 17:31 | |
| fantastic shots, as all of you said this is an amazing species, really love them and they for sure are one of my favourites, keep posting
regards | |
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Trey Keyes
Newbie
Number of posts : 28
Age : 34
Location : USA
Points : 4559
Registration date : 2012-02-16
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Wed 14 Nov - 10:51 | |
| Just doesn't look like one thats all. I live where they do and have seen hundreds in the wild and in captivity. In my opinion it looks more like a pictigaster or laticinctus. Possibly even a hybrid of several subspecies. The banding, pattern, and even coloration to a degree are all wrong for mokasen. Im surprised you even asked why I said that Peter.. it is visually very clear to me | |
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Trey Keyes
Newbie
Number of posts : 28
Age : 34
Location : USA
Points : 4559
Registration date : 2012-02-16
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Peter Zürcher
Admin
Number of posts : 1266
Age : 72
Location : Carinthia, Austria
Points : 8175
Registration date : 2008-03-06
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Wed 14 Nov - 17:18 | |
| - Quote :
- Im surprised you even asked why I said that Peter
I've been asking as a mod who thinks it might be useful to some of our members to know on which parts of the colouration and pattern they should lay an eye on for recognizing a subspecies. I was in no doubt that Christoph's specimens do not look like real mokasen should - but i'm pretty sure my specimens (photographed by Markus) do. Thanks for your reply and the pictures, i'm looking forward to see more of'em from different localities. Recognition of contortrix subcspecies can be very difficult because of two reasons: first - geographical overlap and intergradation zones of some subspecies second - mixing (conciously or unintentionally) of captive stock allover the world Additionally, the status of Agkistrodon contortrix and its subspecies is under research and discussion, see here: http://www.venomland.net/t6371-agkistrodon-contortrix-phylogenetics and here with some additions and remarks by Joseph T. Collins: http://www.cnah.org/research.asp regards Peter | |
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Vincent Troost
Newbie
Number of posts : 17
Age : 43
Location : The Netherlands
Points : 4942
Registration date : 2011-01-15
| | Subject: Re: Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen Thu 15 Nov - 1:10 | |
| I do agree with Peter that since 'Coppers' been captive bred for ages now, there are a lot of ssp. 'mixed up' with eachother, which ofcourse makes it quite hard to excactly determine what is what.
One of the things I see on the pictures of the 'Mokasen' is a almost black tailtip, which according to the book 'Snakes of the Agkistrodon complex', is typical for the 'Mokasen', while other ssp. lack that typical black tail tip, and have a (greyish) yellow or a (greyish) green tailtip, depending on the ssp.
I have multiple 'Coppers' myself, and 1 of those animals looks exactly like the one that's discussed here.
And after reading, looking, reading again, looking better, again reading and comparing I also came to the conclusion that it's likely a 'Mokasen' or at least a 'hybrid' with an awfull lot 'Mokasen' characteristics.
But, again, because of all the 'mixing' I really think there are very few 'real' ssp. left in the hobby.
Grtzz. Vinc.
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