New Monacled Morphs Yet to be Released to market.

First I am Not Big into Forums, People Are Caddy!
But giving I had to get on here to Post that YES! Jason does have my bloodlines of Leucistics, Sunsets, Blizzards etc.
And yes The Leucistics are TRUE LEUCISTIC'S! And yes he is the first I know or to Breed the Leucistic to Leucistic Breeding. I never Bothered as I was working to create New morphs by Breeding Double hets and such.

With that said here are a few new Morphs. Have a Napkin ready to clean up the drool Wink

Actually I am not even sure if I did this right so hopefully the pics come up. This shows how much I like Forums Wink

New Monacled Morphs Yet to be Released to market. 100_1413

New Monacled Morphs Yet to be Released to market. 100_1414

New Monacled Morphs Yet to be Released to market. 100_1415

Nice

Welcome to the Venomland.

Don't get me wrong, this is just my opinion, but one thing i have in my mind when i see those pictures is: Kornsnakes with venom....

Best regards

Give me time I will work on that, Personally, I think if I could Create a Spitting corn snake it would prevent the head chopping of snakes from ignorant snake haters.
But Glad you like them.

Dude they are beautiful! But I already know that.

Hey Mitch

Glad to see ya here, showing those killer morphs.

Randy

Jason Bruno wrote:: Dude they are beautiful! But I already that.

You for got the Knew Wink

ya ya I fixed it.

Guest

Great work Mitch!

Almost so colourful as your website, Mitch.

Quote :: Give me time I will work on that, Personally, I think if I could Create a Spitting corn snake

I'm sure you would do that, if you could Sad

@ Markus Gottlieb
It was only a matter of time until producing of lollypop-snakes takes place in the venomous section too.

@all
Everybody should feel free to like that or not - i don't.
I don't wanna start a general discussion about it, different people - different taste, that's it.

Peter

Guest

Quote :: different people - different taste, that's it.

Agreed.

Welcome to VenomLand Mitch!

even if that is not the introduction board, what the heck...
i am glad too, that you join, especially, coz you dont like forums much - same as i do... (one reson, to have set up my own forum)

said that, i like to state, i dont see any big problems with colourmorphs in venomous snakes, (have few myself) as long as the breeder make sure, there will be no interbreeding with different species in order to create such stunning colours as i can see on your pictures... i am always a litte, lets call it; reseved, with morphes as i fear a little bit the main stream will crossbreed, producing creature wich might have a different venom from their "wild colored relatives"... just imagine the trouble if someone gets nailed and noone know's what species caused the bite... ill think sean would have such problems treathing such patient's..

beside that, i like your shown snakes, i also like golden tubby tigers... well, thats the trend since many years in our hobby, i was just waiting when some folks come up with the first orange naja. well looks like you have done it...

@all, and yes, please dont argue in a personal matter about colour morphs in venomous snakes, if someone like to discuss such matters, we have a different board here where one can start a new topic....

cheers
Mario

Guest

Mario, I do agree with you in the sense of Hybridisation with two different species. It is playing God, and I do not like people playing God. We do not make the rules, Mother Nature does. And by humans breeding two different species to create a Hybrid, we are enforcing the rules, which in my opinion, is breaking the rules of Mother Nature.

Granted, it does happen in the wild. For example, Crotalus adamantues x Crotalus horridus Hybrids have been found in the wild, it does happen. I guess that side is OK, but things that don't happen, such as PNG Taipan with Coastal Taipan for example, is what I am against.

I do not mind Morphing, as long as it is done in the most humane way possible, and very little are produced so as the world isn't flooded with them, like morphed Retics for example. That is just my opinion, again, I do not wish to start a full-blown debate, I am just entitled to an opinion, as is everyone else.

I have a Sunglow Monocled that shows a LOT of lavender. I really like normals, but damn if she isn't just "pretty" Smile

Peter Zürcher wrote:

Almost so colourful as your website, Mitch.

Quote :: Give me time I will work on that, Personally, I think if I could Create a Spitting corn snake

I'm sure you would do that, if you could Sad

@ Markus Gottlieb
It was only a matter of time until producing of lollypop-snakes takes place in the venomous section too.

@all
Everybody should feel free to like that or not - i don't.
I don't wanna start a general discussion about it, different people - different taste, that's it.

Peter

Peter that was a Joke! I do not cross breed any cobras. Fact is all These Morphs Originate from wild caught Leucistic and (2) Sunsets that were found in the wild over 15 years ago.

And nothing is inbred which is why it takes me so long to produce animals with Variants.

But I would like to see a spitting corn snake. Like I said. I deal with Ignorant People everyday who think all snakes are bad.
If we had any spitters of any type here it would stop the heads from being chopped off of anything that crawls. And that would be a good thing.

My Point for breeding Reptiles for the last 28 years has been to Educate. And if it takes something that is Strikingly Beautiful to get there attn and it gives me the chance to teach the truth about these Beautiful animals in the wild. Then all is good.

These animals Need to have there Habitat protected from Development all Over the world. And I know I am doing my part to do just that.

Thanks to everyone else for the Nice Comments.

Thank you Mario,
I hope you do not think that was an attack of any way on Peter, Just stating the facts Smile

Don't worry, Mitch - I don't feel attacked that quick.

Some time, when emotions will have settled down, we maybe will have interesting discussions about the genetic status of your "leucistics".

by the way: cross breeding cobras..... there are people who breed Naja kaouthia X Naja atra in order to get "Formosan Morphs - do you know more about that?
regards
Peter

I reckon someone may have bred kaouthia and atra together at some point, knowing how some people are, but Thailand has kaouthia in the wild that sport "Formosan" hood markings, as well as other odd hood markings.

Several different hood markings found on kaouthia in Thailand are shown on several pages in the book, "The Snakes of Thailand and Their Husbandry" by Merel J. Cox. The book also shows a photo of a white kaouthia, with a few black spots on top of it's head, and it says it has "black" eyes, and is NOT an albino. Obviously, a leucistic.

Guest

Now, those are just amazing Mitch.

You are the men when it comes to this. Absolutely!

I knew about these kaouthia with aberrant, atra-like hood pattern, Randy.

Thanks for posting about this white kaouthia with black eyes - unfortunately i don't own that book.
Leucistics can have bright blue, steel blue (intermediate between black and blue) or black eyes - on the other hand neither blue nor black eyes are a proof for leucism.
My "blonde phase" Crotalus enyo (hypomelanistic), which i used to breed 2 decades ago, had blue eyes too.

The snake on that picture might be a leucistic or not - obviously, as you write, it is.
During the past years, the habit to call every white or almost white cobra leucistic has taken place more and more - but very few, not to say almost none of these are leucistic in the original genetic sense.

I know from one breeder somewhere in Europe owning and breeding white kaouthia - his snakes are pure white as adults, and everybody would call them leucistic.
There's only one problem - they hatch coloured in grey, beige or yellow and change into pure white later. In my opinion, they cannot be leucistic in genetic sense, because pigment cells do exist on the whole body, causing the juvenile colouration.

I try to get this breeder overhere and to post pictures - but it's a bit difficult, as he doesn't publish anything and doesn't want everybody to know about his collection.

Best regards
Peter

Quote :: In my opinion, they cannot be leucistic in genetic sense, because pigment cells do exist on the whole body, causing the juvenile colouration.

That is the wrong defintion of leucism!
The cells occur in leucism but they are unable to produce melanin. That is the reason why in leucism traits, paradox leucism (black scales) or piebalds exist.
The pure white leucism can be called the "crown" of leucism, but there are other traits,too.

For example

http://www.albinogartersnake.com/images/price_leucistic.jpg

Well, Fabian, that's
not wrong, as far as i know.

Quote :: The cells occur in leucism but they are unable to produce melanin.

That's the case in amelanism.

Simply said, in leucism, precursor cells (melanoblasts) do not migrate from the neural crest in early embryonic live due to a dominant-rezessive genetic defect.

Peter

As far as I know, amelanistic reptiles are not able to syntesyze melanin.

I have to look at this. Maybe it is helpfull
http://hubpages.com/hub/Understanding-Reptile-Color-and-Correct-Color-Terminology

You can produce more and more white snakes with amelanistic ones, crossing them with axanthic or anerythristic snakes and rebreed.
But they are not pure white and they have red eyes ( snow, blizzard )

edit: Becaus of some cells are able to produce melanin, piebalds exist.
There is no example in amelanistic traits.

Yes, this could be helpful, Fabian.

"Classic leukism is due to chromatophore necrosis, apoptosis, dysgenesis or agenesis - and is the the absence of recognizable chromatophore cells on histopathology."

"Any white animals with pigmented eyes are leukistic? NO. Particularly in those animals where their color or percieved color comes from keratin structures like hair or feathers. There are other mutations out there where the pigment cells are working but ......"

"Animals with patterns are leukistic, right? NO. Leukistic animals should be all white. There was a picture of a giraffe circulating about the internet a few years ago that was black and white. No brown. People started calling it leukistic. NO. It had black, so it was not leucistic...."

very interesting, thanks for finding this.

Regards
Peter

I think it is only a question of the defintion

There are other papers available which have another opinion...

Quote :: There are other papers available which have another opinion...

Would be glad to get these links too - if they're available online at all.

» Leucistic Monacled cobras
» Bangkok Market A Hub For Illegal International Trade In Wildlife
» My Morphs ...
» N. Kaouthia Sunset Morphs
» Unusual colour-morphs, patterns, etc.