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 Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp

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Michael Schmutz
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Michael Schmutz


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Number of posts : 24
Age : 45
Location : Switzerland
Points : 4864
Registration date : 2011-09-14

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Empty
PostSubject: Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp   Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Icon_minitimeWed 28 Sep - 6:43

Hey guys

I need some help to identifie the Crotalus male on the below shown pic.

I could follow the trace of that Crotalus back over two pre-oners to someone who keep diffrent Crotalus species as for example:
Crotalus oreganus lutosus, Crotalus oreganus helleri and quite some more.

However I'm not sure which sub-species it could belong to, or whether it could be an intergrade.
From my point of view, it has some remarks of both sub-species, Crotalus oreganus lutosus and hellerie.

May be on of you Crotalus cracks can helb me.

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Lutosu10

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Lutosu12

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Lutosu13

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Lutosu11
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Jeremie Tai-A-Pin
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Jeremie Tai-A-Pin


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Number of posts : 40
Age : 48
Location : Netherlands
Points : 5240
Registration date : 2010-09-16

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp   Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Icon_minitimeThu 29 Sep - 20:06

It definatly has an C.o.lutosus look too it but as for natural hybrid/intergrate
C.o.oreganus or C.o.abyssus would fit - any idea where the animal comes from?
Personally I find the blotches more oreganus then helleri.

Gtz JT
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Michael Schmutz
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Michael Schmutz


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Number of posts : 24
Age : 45
Location : Switzerland
Points : 4864
Registration date : 2011-09-14

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp   Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Icon_minitimeThu 29 Sep - 21:33


Hey Jeremie

Thanks or your post. I agree with the lutosus "look" and the oreganus like blotches.
What I would exclude, is a natural intergrate. As far as I know it might be more likely an crossing by accident or unknowing of the different sub-species , in captivity.
Unfortunaltely I can't tell you where the parents come from, as it is a F3 or 4 CB.

However, would you exclude that it is an 100% lutosus or organus?
Or could it be an color variation of lutosus or oreganus from a certain area?

The pic 10 and 12 of C.o.oreganus on your website come quite close to the pics of my Crotalus.

Thanks for your help.

Michael
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Roger Sharp
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Roger Sharp


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Number of posts : 43
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Location : stapleford, nottingham, uk
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Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp   Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Icon_minitimeThu 29 Sep - 23:38

here is a pic of my C. o .helleri

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp DSC02814
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Jeremie Tai-A-Pin
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Jeremie Tai-A-Pin


Male
Number of posts : 40
Age : 48
Location : Netherlands
Points : 5240
Registration date : 2010-09-16

Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp   Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Icon_minitimeFri 30 Sep - 21:12

Hey Michael
Michael Schmutz wrote:

However, would you exclude that it is an 100% lutosus or organus?
Or could it be an color variation of lutosus or oreganus from a certain area?
Quote :
The pic 10 and 12 of C.o.oreganus on your website come quite close to the pics of my Crotalus.
The animals pictured are the same Wink As for your animal, because of the unclear
background I'd keep it as C.oreganus ssp
An interesting page http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/c.o.oreganus.html

@ Roger - Nice "typical" looking helleri!!!

Gtz JT
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PostSubject: Re: Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp   Need help to identifie Crotalus oreganus ssp Icon_minitime

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