scaleless Bitis arietans

Sometime Ro i wonder who suffers more from censorship Europe or USA.

i was interested in your article about these specimens so straight from the begining of the thread i google scale less puff adders / Bitis arietans and found out Glades herp had purchased them there at a show in Europe for 4500.00 USD a pair.

So the selling price was not so bad when you include shipping.

An important factor in doing business is having vision , than the stomach to carry out your plan.

Regards,

Once again Peter, no one was blaming you for doing anything wrong, and I just pointed that out, because evidently you didn't understand what Neven meant. I tried to explain, because I did understand what he meant. Neven said he was told they came from you. That is all. Neven didn't say you sold them knowing that they were possible het scale-less. You said that later in another post quote "I sold two pairs of 66% poss. hets to german keepers (for just a normal arietans-price and with information!)." So Peter, your the only person that said you did something wrong. Your guilty conscience seems to have gotten the better of you.

Ro, I don't remember what Glades was asking for them. I think Robbie Keszey offered them to me for $2500 ea. I'm not sure if they actually sold any or not.

Randy Ciuros wrote:: 'What is happening to venomland'? '...then people that have nothing constructive to say about the topic start complaining about the question, or the topic, or the kind of people that keep the animals that are the subject of the topic. If you don't have something constructive to say, why say anything'. 'This place is really starting to go down hill'.

... Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Hey Jon , why do you dwell on things like that , you seem well read and informed and your avatar looks cool , i bet you can come up with some interesting subjects , i for one would be interested in what you know about Neotropical Palm -Pitvipers, etc.

Give it a shot you really seem to be a cool herper not some nit-picking science teacher .

a fan !

Albert.

Albert J. Montejo wrote:: Hey Jon , why do you dwell on things like that , you seem well read and informed and your avatar looks cool , i bet you can come up with some interesting subjects , i for one would be interested in what you know about Neotropical Palm -Pitvipers, etc.

Give it a shot you really seem to be a cool herper not some nit-picking science teacher .

a fan !

Albert.

Hmmm... Thanks for the kind words, Mr. Montejo. On this occasion, it may appear that I'm 'dwelling' on the comments of Mr. Ciuros; however I and a number of other members and readers here at Venomland have been amused by his blatant hypocrisy and histrionics. Have a read through this Thread in its entirety and I'm sure you'll understand. My apologies to the Venomland members for this off topic post. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Sorry,

But I haven't seen an ON topic post from you Mr. Jon Davidson.

Well Jan, at least more informative than most of Your (and others including my) statements e.g.:

Jan Jonkman wrote:: Very nice Eric!
Breathtaking animals, all of them.

Jan Jonkman wrote:: Very nice find Matt!

...

Well at least they are positive and on topic Guenter.

Most of the people post pictures of their animals because they are proud of their collection and want to show the animals in it an share information about them. If I wanted to know something about that particular animal I will ask. If i think I know enough ( in my eyes) about it, I wont.

I (and a lot of people with me, so I gathered the last view days) are tired with a lot of people with semi-intellectual comments that sometimes cover an entire page and still don't say anything.

We all get your English is very good Guenter, all of us Europeans applaud you!
But I'd rather learn something from you (if you have something to learn to me except for spelling? ) then read meaningless words from you.

No I guess nobody here can learn something about snakes from me (but vice versa I learned a lot). I was invited into this group a long time ago by Peter and Mario for my photography not for my knowledge about snakes. I'm well aware of this. As I can remember I never ever wrote that I know something about snakes. If the majority here tells me that my contribution (photos and sometimes a link) here is no more necessary, I'll be the first to leave.

But e.g. Peter and Jon know a lot about snakes and those forthgoing attacks from some weird people here are hard to accept. It must be allowed to state that "The fascination with deliberately engineered genetic abnormality eludes him" without getting virtually ripped by some obviously inmature guys in a Cowboy like manner (first shoot, then ask). And if they then get a harsh reply, they explode ... If You piss against the wind, You should be aware of yellow knees Wink

Jon also said in the same post "Perhaps the specimens died prematurely because they didn't have any scales." - a very on topic statement which was ignored by the "Dutch plus Tim and Randy connection" because it did not fit into their argumentation line, I guess.

Besides that I don't know what Your intention was when You reflected on my English. It's not my native language (as for most of the people here), so it should not be a matter of discussion as long as it is understandable.

Regards,
Guenter

serious guys.. go back and read the thread!!??
Is this kindergarten?
Life is to short arguing meanfully to eachother. we all are here for the love of reptiles so try keep this site a happy and fun and educational one.
Have a fantastic day all you fellow herpers.
best
reg
Mats

Sorry if this can be misinterpreted as i have nothing against those who keep scaleless but isnt it a possibility that scaleless individuals are much more sensitive to dehydration and humidity related problems?
It might be a reason as to why these animals die?

Just a thought.

Agust Lundkvist wrote:: Sorry if this can be misinterpreted as i have nothing against those who keep scaleless but isnt it a possibility that scaleless individuals are much more sensitive to dehydration and humidity related problems?
It might be a reason as to why these animals die?

Just a thought.

Yes, I think so. Neven has really nice natural looking cages so even though he said that he didn't do anything special besides spraying a bit more when in shed, his cages were probably never really dry. I think that would be a killer for these animals.

Cheers, Ro.

Do a google image search for scaleless puff adder and you will turn up plenty of pics...

I'm really late in contributing to this thread; I'm not even sure which year it began and last received an addition, but now, in June, 2013, I'll say a few words.

I had received a shipment from South America in 1970 or 1971...I used to import herps pre CITES, and in the shipment was a large, extremely thick bodied Bothrops sp. that was entirely scaleless. Dark brown in color, I wouldn't venture a guess as to the specific sub species, but what I'm saying is this was a very healthy, very active, and very scaleless Bothrops.

In the years that I was actively importing reptiles this was the only scaleless specimen I had ever received alive, although there was one other snake, an unidentified colubrid, that had been sent along by the shipper as a curiosity. This specimen arrived dead, my impression at the time was it had defecated in the bag it had been sent in and the material had caused a fatal skin infection.

Rare as they may be, scaleless reptiles do exist in nature through no fault of their own. They exist, and in my opinion, their typical lifespans are compromised by an inability to protect themselves from environmental elements which could result in injury or infection. Again, in my opinion, I do not think of a scaleless reptile in terms of it being ''defective,'' rather I think of it as a variation, a less successful design of nature.

I find all life forms beautiful, some more striking than others, but all beautiful. A snake without scales may not live as long as a snake with scales, but in its own way, it has a beauty unique to itself. The diversity in nature is simply amazing!

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