N. Kaouthia Sunset Morphs

Wow... a lot of traffic here! I think no specimen in my collection is nearly as feisty as some of you guys ;-) it probably makes more fun to rejoice in that unique pictures and all of the experience behind it.

Jason... really great animals that you collect and breed congrats. I love all of your lolly pops and would give my left hand to own some. Please don´t stop posting your pictures and input... it´s always a pleasure to my eyes.

As Bostja wrote unfortunately some of the most impressive snakes (in my opinion) are rarely or not available here in Europe. Maybe someday!?

you never know really, i just guess. There was for example a designer python made called 'Paradox Hypo Super Mojave'. Mojave being het blueye leucistc. That was the combination of Super Mojave (Blue-eye Leucistic) X Paradox (Unproven-random occurance) X Hypomelanistic (Homozygous). I don't know if is defined what genes or rather what caracteristics (colour or pattern) are predominantly passed on to the next generation in Kaouthia when breeding two morphs. In Ball Python Morphs this caracteristics are usualy known, so we can tell with some accuracy what will be the outcome of the crossing.

I'm not the scietist so I can only asume based on information available. Neither did I cross any morphs yet. But I am planing to breed my Mojave Ball Python this year or maybe the next with normal female. Later I'll breed the same male to the Enchi Pastel female to produce Enchi-Mojave Ball Python.

Maybe breeding Leucistic-Sunset would produce more pearl looking animals.

Quote :: Maybe breeding Leucistic-Sunset would produce more pearl looking animals.

Not at all.
Once again:Classic or real leucism is a genetic defect (sorry, but it is a defect) causing the skin not to have any pigment cells.
For the reason we have two theories - the first and older one says that pre cells for pigment cells are unable to migrate from the neural crest - the second one says they do, but they're not able to survive in the skin.
Anyway, no pigment cells - no colors, not even "pearl"
There were some interesting tests: If you implant pigment cells (melanophores in this case) into the skin of amelanistic snakes, they survive and start to produce melanin. If you implant pigment cells into a leucistic skin, they die.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Understanding-Reptile-Color-and-Correct-Color-Terminology

By the way: "pearl" exists already in Naja kaouthia - a breeder from the netherlands called his suphan offspring (me and others believe them to be very bright suphans) that way.

I have to check it, thanx

This is where my experience comes in. There are 2 sunset lines, one is a sunset to sunset and the other is sunset to leucistic. If you breed a leucistic to the sunset/sunset line you will get animals that are het for leucistic and sunset. If you breed a leucistic to a sunset/leucistic line you will produce Sunsets, Leucistics and the Blizzard phase that I posted a pic of. The Blizzard carries both Sunset and Leucitic genes. My leucistic line is pure leucistic so if you breed leucistics to leucistics you will get the blue eyed Leucistics and nothing else. There are a plethera of other sunset morphs that people are trying to name but again it feels like a sales train but whatever people want to do is fine. Some breeders are producing varients of the sunsets and naming EVERYTHING thats is diiferent looking even just the slightest, thats aburd but again its personnel preference. I sold my sunsets off and all I work with is pure leucistic lines and trying produce the orangest albinos I can. Alot of the sunsets from the sunset/leucistic line seem to fade with age where as the sunset/sunset lines stay pretty vivid. The Supersun I sold Randy was only produced once in a 10 year project. She is a very special Kaouthia that essentially allows Randy to venture in new and exciting morphs. With that being said about them and me selling them, do you honestly feel that I'm breeding for money and "freaks". I cut back to Leucistics and Albinos which are my favorites and feel that I can produce albinos that will be just as intense as the brightest Sunsets and it will happen.
Thanks again for all the kind replies, I do appreciate it very much. Thank you

This is very interesting stuff, so Leucistic mutations in Ball Pythons are kind of "Hormone Mediated Pseudoalbinism or Pseudoleukism (HMP complex)". There is clear diference to tell the truth between Kaouthia Leucistic and Ball Paython Leucistic. So 'Leucism' is really a defect in the skin but is also genetic. Ball pythons we could say than have more 'names' rather than real genetic definition. Colur mutations are than genetic and leucism is a defect. Well we can't know for all, what are their origins. It's good to beter understand the basics of this colour changes. I wish this kind of sources were more available and presented to morph collectors or anyone interested to get better understanding of this subject. It would maybe give the breeders better guidelines when producing designer morphs of any kind reptiles.

I hope this findings are published. I will definetly take a look at this again to slowly read it, my understanding of this is far from scientific, but it would be very intersted to read more about this in the future.

If anybody is interested - I recomend

http://hubpages.com/hub/Understanding-Reptile-Color-and-Correct-Color-Terminology

You're saying actually Jason that is that Blizzard is a cross that I said I'd make (sunset X Leucistic), but Peter is explaining the real meaning of the word Leucism or Leucistic. There was a misunderstandind from all sites. This makes it that Kaouthia Leucism is a genetic mutation, more than real 'Leucism' in the meaning of the word. And explains to me that they have been crossed already by you. And also explains that the gene is simple recessive in Leucistic and Co.Dominant in Sunset Morph. Kaouthia colour mutation is genetic and mimics the raal leucism that has random occurance.

Quote :: By the way: "pearl" exists already in Naja kaouthia - a breeder from the netherlands called his suphan offspring (me and others believe them to be very bright suphans) that way.

Actually they we're bred in Germany and some we're sold to people in the Netherlands. I have 1.1. of this specimens in my position. They we're bred in 2006.
Also I think they are bright suphans. I will soon show some pictures of the adults.
This clutch has been discussed before in this topic.

https://venomland.forumotion.com/naja-f1/naja-kauothia-suphan-t41.htm

Cheers,

Jelmer

Guest

Hi,

why flame? Theres no need to down rate Jasons posts. Bubblegumcolormorphbreeding isn't my world too but why hate it that much?

Maybe not exactly ontopic, but, does anyone know something about the effects from breeding temperature on spontaneous gene mutation during the meiosis by crossbreeding different phenotypes of one species? Such as "incomplete penetrance" from dominant alleles? i asked that on a few boards. nobody can tell anything about it.

I got an animal that is a crossbreed between two phenotypes of the same species an the parents where homozygous ones which only breeds one Phenotype if breed with the same phenotype. But with "extremely" different breeding temps there comes two different phenotypes out. And thats no thing that accords to mendel.

Maybe there are species known that produces different phenotypes by different breeding temps?

Sorry. Not the breeding temp but the temperature during the fertilization? of the eggs.

Bostjan here is the break down
Leucistic male to a Sunset/Sunset female you will get "normal" looking animals that are het for sunset and leucistic.
"Leucistic male to a Sunset/leucistic female you will get Sunsets, leucistics and the Blizzard.
You have to remember that there is 2 sunset lines. The wild caught sunset male was breed to a wild caught Leucistic female and hatchlings were born. Then the wild caught sunset male was breed to a wild caught sunset female and then babies. So one sunset line has Leucistic genes and the other doesn't.

So are both recessive, what is than 'supersun'?

That's what some are working on. When they figure it out I will post it. I just lost interest and I know its going to go crazy and honestly want nothing to do with it. The Supersun mimics the red/orange original female but is "hypo" and has ruby red eyes compared to the dark/orange and normal eyed original female. The male must have carried either a hypo or pastel gene. Some think that the supersun carries both Albino -/+ genes along with a hypo or pastel gene. The Lavendar phase that are lavendar as babies turn orange with lavendar on the hood mainly as they get older. Looking like a outstanding albino with lavendar. Like I said in previous post there needs to be more breeding to isolate everything and to have a better sense on what's going on. Ya you can guarantee there will be more and more morphs coming about but with no market for them here all those babies will need homes.

Interested snakes, for sure find home. As long as the price is good. From the price that you send me for Leuc. i can tell that they are not overpriced, like for example Ball Pythons. There some mutations, like Coral Glow (Banana-Whitesmoke), are extremly expensive - 20000$. I paid for Mojave Ball 550€ in 2007. Thre is better market in US for this.

I hope you'll show us new things when you come across them. I'm not the No1 fan for cobras, but when my larger snake room is finished in next two years, some of this morphs will find a home with me. Leucistic and Sunset definetly. For now I don't want to keep large Elapids in a room 3,7 x 2,7m (12 x 9 ft), for security reasons.

Jason very nice snakes you have there!
And I envy Randy hi can buy from you this beauty’s.
Regards,
Karl

Thank you Karl. I'm sure Randy is happy to own such animals. Thanks again

Karl Müller wrote:: Jason very nice snakes you have there!
And I envy Randy hi can buy from you this beauty’s.
Regards,
Karl

I really like al the different colours and morphs of kaouthia but Karl your kaouthia rule they are nicest animals I have ever seen pictures of.

cheers

Richard

» cluster of sunset monocle cobras
» One of my N. kaouthia´s .
» Unusual colour-morphs, patterns, etc.
» Naja atra - Chinese Morphs
» New Monacled Morphs Yet to be Released to market.