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 "Hypo" Javan project

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Jimmy Cederhag
Dan Scolaro
PeterMagnusson
kevin oberson
Ari Finsk
Graeme Skinner
Stefan Thomson
Jörg Porstmann
Derek Morgan
Mario Lutz
Christian Moisander
15 posters
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AuthorMessage
Dan Scolaro
Newbie
Newbie
Dan Scolaro


Number of posts : 18
Age : 61
Location : USA
Points : 6009
Registration date : 2008-06-02

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: A few special puniceus:   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu 23 Jul - 23:07

Here's a few nice ones from some of my collection.

Dan


An attractive yellow:
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Tpuniciusyellow1




This whitish one looks like a pacific ground boa:
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Tpuniciuswhite3




This speckled one had a litter a few months ago:
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Tpuniciusspeckled1
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Christian Moisander
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6334
Registration date : 2008-04-27

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun 26 Jul - 23:21

Thanks guys Smile

I will keep the news coming as things progress. I think 2-3 weeks from now all should've shed for the first time, and then it's picture-taking time again Smile

Sure thing Stefan, I'm sure you'll get some new individuals you are just going to love - these look so good in person already.

Thanks for sharing Dan. Really gorgeous specimens.
The female looks a lot like what I'm used to seeing, perhaps a tad darker - especially the pattern.
The male, however, looks totally different from what I've seen. Never seen a pattern fused together as much. Almost resembles some Vipera, at least to me Smile
Would be nice to see how the pictured youngsters develope.
I've seen several specimens with white speckling, I had 1-2, but never seen so much of it. That looks really beautiful.
Are yours from Java? Was that female a gravid WC specimen?

EDIT:
I recently spoke with my buddy, and we concluded that at this point we've had 140 T. puniceus babies. Live ones.
He's had 48 Javan babies so far - would've had an additional 12, but he sold a gravid female. Technically they should count, in my opinion Wink
I've had 80 Javan babies and 12 Sumatran at this point.
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Stefan Thomson
Snakecharmer
Snakecharmer
Stefan Thomson


Male
Number of posts : 178
Age : 42
Location : Finland
Points : 6062
Registration date : 2008-08-25

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon 27 Jul - 3:17

Indeed amazing looking specimen Dan has, would be more than welcome in my collection. Thanks for sharing Smile

Christian, i can hardly wait Razz
Here´s few pics from the cute hypo kid from you:

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Tp2

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Tp1

Not the best pictures concerning the colours but still so different than the "normal" one.
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http://www.exotic-animals.tk
Dan Scolaro
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Newbie
Dan Scolaro


Number of posts : 18
Age : 61
Location : USA
Points : 6009
Registration date : 2008-06-02

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: LOCALE   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon 27 Jul - 23:07

She was an import that perhaps arrived gravid but did not learn of any locale for her. Her babies were not speckled at all nor as colorful as that shows the second or third year and guess the specks come on with age as I have a few 2-3 year old wild caughts with many fewer specks. Some of her litter may go to Hamm so let me know if you are attending or have a contact.

Dan
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"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 28 Jul - 3:49

these are awesome pitvipers Cool ,my favorite trimeresurus spiecies for shure
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Christian Moisander
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6334
Registration date : 2008-04-27

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 29 Jul - 8:59

Nice shots Stefan. That guy is looking great. Sharp.

Thanks for the additional info Dan. I'll send you a PM right away.
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Christian Moisander
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6334
Registration date : 2008-04-27

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 18 Aug - 0:56

New pictures...

From the Father of the Hypos X Dark WC female, 2009:

1.0
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040112

1.0
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040139

0.1 My favorite, unbelievably 'smooth' colors. Velvety Very Happy
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040118

0.1 Another favorite, almost half the pattern zig-zags.
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040138

0.1
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040105
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PeterMagnusson
Snakekeeper
Snakekeeper



Male
Number of posts : 91
Age : 43
Location : Linköping Sweden
Points : 5703
Registration date : 2009-07-12

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 18 Aug - 0:59

Awesome animals. Cant wait until "my" arrives Very Happy
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Christian Moisander
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6334
Registration date : 2008-04-27

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 18 Aug - 1:05

More new pictures...

From the Father of the Hypos X Hypo female, 2009:

1.0
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040171

1.0
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040169-1

0.1
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040181

0.1
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040197

0.1
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040211-1


2008

1.0
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040221-1

0.1
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040219
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Christian Moisander
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6334
Registration date : 2008-04-27

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 18 Aug - 1:06

I bet you can't, Peter Wink
Just wait until you see them live...
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PeterMagnusson
Snakekeeper
Snakekeeper



Male
Number of posts : 91
Age : 43
Location : Linköping Sweden
Points : 5703
Registration date : 2009-07-12

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 18 Aug - 2:49

Just love the yellow ones. Wink
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Christian Moisander
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6334
Registration date : 2008-04-27

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun 13 Sep - 1:32

Wanted to share two pictures with you guys.
These are from the dark female's litter and they are among those already shed twice.

1.0
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040674

0.1
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1040669
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Jimmy Cederhag
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Jimmy Cederhag


Male
Number of posts : 99
Age : 48
Location : Sweden
Points : 6046
Registration date : 2008-07-02

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun 13 Sep - 7:09

Just lovly Smile

cheers
Jimmy
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BradMiller
Snakecharmer
Snakecharmer
BradMiller


Male
Number of posts : 181
Age : 46
Location : South Africa
Points : 5890
Registration date : 2009-05-09

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon 5 Oct - 2:24

HI Christian Moisander

You have some beautiful snakes.
I have a reverse trio that have breed a few times but never got any eggs.
Can you tell me what you do to get yours to breed succesfully.

Here some pics of mine

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000187

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000191

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000195

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000192

Re
Brad
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Walter Silva
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Walter Silva


Male
Number of posts : 385
Age : 47
Location : Perú
Points : 6093
Registration date : 2009-06-15

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat 10 Oct - 7:17

Hi Christian Moisander:

I have two babies of T puniceus, but they aren´t feeding !!!.... Not interesting in pinkies...Do you have any especial management for the babies???

Thanks for your time

Walter
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Anze Gratzer
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Snakekeeper
Anze Gratzer


Male
Number of posts : 79
Age : 43
Location : Slovenia
Points : 5744
Registration date : 2009-06-11

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat 10 Oct - 15:42

Usually it works that you "scent" a mouse with a frog, and if they don't take it, try with tease or assist feeding (in my experience, tease feeding did no good).

Cheers,
Anze
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http://fila-brasileiro.webs.com
PeterMagnusson
Snakekeeper
Snakekeeper



Male
Number of posts : 91
Age : 43
Location : Linköping Sweden
Points : 5703
Registration date : 2009-07-12

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat 10 Oct - 19:34

for how long havent they eat? I had a puniceus for some years ago that bite and release and then sniffed it up and eat at night. try that.
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Walter Silva
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Snakemaster
Walter Silva


Male
Number of posts : 385
Age : 47
Location : Perú
Points : 6093
Registration date : 2009-06-15

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat 10 Oct - 23:41

Anze Gratzer wrote:
Usually it works that you "scent" a mouse with a frog, and if they don't take it, try with tease or assist feeding (in my experience, tease feeding did no good).

Cheers,
Anze

Thanks Anze, try that.


Last edited by Walter Silva on Sat 10 Oct - 23:45; edited 1 time in total
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Walter Silva
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Walter Silva


Male
Number of posts : 385
Age : 47
Location : Perú
Points : 6093
Registration date : 2009-06-15

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat 10 Oct - 23:44

PeterMagnusson wrote:
for how long havent they eat? I had a puniceus for some years ago that bite and release and then sniffed it up and eat at night. try that.

Hi Peter, they aren´t feeding 12 days ago (never feeding with me, they stay in Perú 12 days ago...but i don´t know if they are eating in USA..)

The babies bite the pinkies, but don´t eating at nigth....

best regards

Walter
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Stefan Thomson
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Snakecharmer
Stefan Thomson


Male
Number of posts : 178
Age : 42
Location : Finland
Points : 6062
Registration date : 2008-08-25

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun 11 Oct - 0:46

Some young may be abit more difficult. I´ve had some which bite the pinkies but quickly release and don´t take it over the night. I´ve had success in teasing them to bite many times, until they take a firm grip and don´t let go right away. Then i very gently, slowly take the tongs away trying to move them or myself aslittle as possible (if succesfull they still have the pinkie in the jaw, if unsuccesfull the pinkies on the ground pretty fast). Then i just stay still and usually after awhile they start eating. Then when they have swallowed pinkies i still wait awhile, too much disturbance too soon and the pinkie comes up and out. Same happens if i cause too much disturbance during the eating process. So patience and staying still have been the keys for me Smile

Sometimes they let go of the pinkie eventhough i´m still, then i just try a few times again and if no success i wait a week so that i don´t stress them too much. Maybe mist before the feeding and feed them after the lights go out. Also some have been picky eaters and they have to bite the pinkie in the head in the right angle so that it´s easier to "move" it down, if they bite the pinkie somewhere else and have to move it too much they just let go.

This has worked wonders for me with many species, although takes much time (and a sore arse from sitting with minimal movement!) but after few feedings like these they have got used to it and eat better. Scenting would also be good but i haven´t got frogs or such so i use this method.

Hope they start to feed there Smile
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http://www.exotic-animals.tk
Christian Moisander
Snakemaster
Snakemaster
Christian Moisander


Male
Number of posts : 404
Age : 48
Location : Finland
Points : 6334
Registration date : 2008-04-27

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun 11 Oct - 9:05

Hi Brad.
Thank you for the compliment, you have some gorgeous specimens yourself.
I'm not sure if I can give you any specific breeding info, but this much I can tell;
I usually house females I intend to breed in proper terrariums, and introduce males to females. My puniceus tend to get a bit drier, cooler period in the winter. Overall, I'd say they don't require or even like too much warmth. If I witness courtship or even copulation, or have a reason to believe - judging by the snakes' behavior - that they might have copulated, it's the usual routine; I remove the male, offer the female reasonable amount of food until she rejects it, and try to take care that there's proper humidity and she gets enough to drink as well.

Not sure if this helps at all... I hope in the future your female will produce some nice babies for you. Btw, how old is your female?

Hey Walter.
I may repeat something that has already been mentioned, but hopefully no-one takes offense. This is how I deal with babies...

When a litter is born, I set them up in individual enclosures - or plastic boxes. They have either paper or unfertilized soil at the bottom, plastic plants and 'branches' as well as a water dish.
Then I simply spray them as needed, about twice a week on average, I think.
After the last baby has shed for the first time, I will offer food.

I take as small pinkies as possible, thaw them in hot water and offer them. I mostly do this in the evening or night, but most will eat even during the day. Most babies will take several attempts with the first feeding, several strikes. You may have to seriously tease them.
Most babies hold on to the pinkie if they strike so that the nose of the pinkie goes in their throat, if you understand what I mean. Some may prefer to hold the pray from the neck, but those are a minority in my experience.
This way at least 50% of the babies will eat at the first try. I've had at least one occasion where all the babies ate at the first feeding.

If you find that this doesn't work, here are some simple methods to try out.
Sometimes even tiny pinkies may seem too heavy for some babies, even though they are capable of eating them.
If you have a baby that strikes and does not hold (and does not eat if the pinkie is left with the snake overnight), lift the snake from the branches to the enclosure floor, or some other even surface. This way when the snake strikes, it doesn't have to hold the weight of the prey, but instead gets support from the ground. Might do the trick with some babies.

And as Stefan stressed, sometimes staying very still is the key if the baby holds on to the food. I have taken this one step further, and utilized an idea presented by Greg Maxwell in his book - I avoid staring directly at a specimen in a case like this.

Also, I have learned that freshly killed pinkies are taken with much greater enthusiasm than frozen/thawed. Some babies that were reluctant to feed, ate a live pinkie left with them overnight. Funny thing about this is the fact that in some occasions the live pinkie was in fact larger than the frozen ones I had offered.

Then there are several other options as well. If you know when your babies were born, and they seem healthy and 'normal' ie. not too thin, wait a little more. Wait 5-7 days and then try again. This is basically what I have done with the babies from the dark litter.
Or you can cut the pinkie up to smaller pieces which are easier to swallow.
I believe force-feeding is a last resort, and shouldn't be needed with this species, unless there's something wrong or you absolutely have to kick-start a certain specimen.

Here's a recent example: My dark female gave birth on July 22nd.
One of the males shed for the first time on August 5th. He accepted his first meal on September 11th (whole pinkie) and second meal on September 17th (whole pinkie). He shed the second time on October 4th.
During this period of time most other babies have eaten 6 times. So they get by with surprisingly little food, but naturally won't grow as fast.

I've never 'brained' or scented any pinkies for puniceus.
If I missed anything, I'll add it later, I'm too tired now...

And to be honest, it's not all fun and games. Today I lost my 0901 male from the hypo litter - the most special male in that litter. No idea why he died.
Let me tell you, I wasn't sure if I'm sad as hell or mad as hell... Or both.

To compensate for the long rant, here are some photos.
This is one of the males from the dark litter, after second shed. He's got nice velvety appearance. How can you not love a face like this? Laughing
Hope you enjoy...

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1050211

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1050213-1

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 P1050219
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"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun 11 Oct - 18:06

Congrats! Great looking litter. Remarkable animals.
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Guest
Guest




"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon 12 Oct - 14:35

All of these pics are just amazing animals. The drastic difference in the colors and patterns are just breath taking.
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BradMiller
Snakecharmer
Snakecharmer
BradMiller


Male
Number of posts : 181
Age : 46
Location : South Africa
Points : 5890
Registration date : 2009-05-09

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon 12 Oct - 15:53

Hi Christian

Thanks for the info - and compliments.
My females are around 3-4 years got them for someone who did not want them any more - can you believe it!

At the moment they are all in one huge tank - pic A below but I have just finished making new tanks where the male will be separated from the females. pic B below

A Current tank
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000092
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000090
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000089

B New tank

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00178
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00179
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00180
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00181
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00184


They are very "jumpy" and will bite each other when disturbed - I do the same as Stefan and have allot of patience with them. I have noted that they will take food if offered less frequently - mine eat with no problems if offered every 3-4 week intervals, they seem to be fine with this as their body weight increases and never decreases and still shed regularly

Here are a couple better pictures....
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000186
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC_0193_resizecopy
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC_0195_resizecopy

Regards
Brad
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BradMiller
Snakecharmer
Snakecharmer
BradMiller


Male
Number of posts : 181
Age : 46
Location : South Africa
Points : 5890
Registration date : 2009-05-09

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: "Hypo" Javan project   "Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon 12 Oct - 15:55

Hi Christian

Thanks for the info - and compliments.
My females are around 3-4 years got them for someone who did not want them any more - can you believe it!

At the moment they are all in one huge tank - pic A below but I have just finished making new tanks where the male will be separated from the females. pic B below

A - Current tank
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000092
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000090
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000089

B - New tank

"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00178
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00179
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00180
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00181
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC00184


They are very "jumpy" and will bite each other when disturbed - I do the same as Stefan and have allot of patience with them. I have noted that they will take food if offered less frequently - mine eat with no problems if offered every 3-4 week intervals, they seem to be fine with this as their body weight increases and never decreases and still shed regularly

Here are a couple better pictures....
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 S7000186
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC_0193_resizecopy
"Hypo" Javan project - Page 2 DSC_0195_resizecopy

regards
Brad
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